“she” vs “her”

I guess awkwardness is a subjective matter, but why on Earth would you prefer to say “This is my friend Jane. She and I traveled to Kansas together,” rather than “This is my friend Jane. We traveled to Kansas together”?

Purely a stylistic choice, Nigel, and a subjective one.

But you raise a valid point: some consider it rude to refer to someone in the third person in their presence, as if they weren't there. However, that is a matter of etiquette, not of grammar.

Regarding "...why on Earth would you prefer to say 'This is my friend Jane. She and I traveled to Kansas together,' rather than 'This is my friend Jane. We traveled to Kansas together'?", already asked and answered. "We" is ambiguous. Maybe you're telling Jane that you and I went to Kansas, not you and Jane. Maybe you and someone else in the room who's part of the conversation went with you. Without a context, and especially in writing, "she and I" clarifies the situation. See the examples I already posted. Referring to someone present in the third person is not rude if there are more than two people present, at least, if it's not constant and exclusionary.

Why on Earth does it matter? The subject pronouns have been bouncing around for god knows how long... Just go on wikipedia, look up Middle English pronouns, then Old English pronouns...

Mr. Tonguedefender: "Hey is for horses"
Me: "And it also means hello"

"I was speaking to my administrator and explaining how I met another person in our company. I said “her and I traveled to Kansas together”. She stopped me and said it should be “she and I traveled to Kansas together”. I feel both were appropriate, but she disagreed. Could we both be correct?"

You are actually both right but only she is "correct".

Your administrator has an advantage over you here: she has the full force of "formal" English usage on her side. On your side, you only have colloquial English.

It would be colloquial if it were very commonly said, but I cannot recall ever having heard someone saying "Her and I," and I would find it jarring if they did (much more so, in fact, than something like "Me and her" in the subject position, which is fairly common, and thus, arguably, colloquially correct). No doubt it is sometimes said, but it is rare, and thereby it is just as much an error in colloquial as in formal English.

I don't remember learning this in school. Except for the part that in formal language you should use I at the end of the list of people you're talking about, because if you say 'I, Tom, Tim, and John went..' it sounds more selfish or something like that. You should say, 'Tom, Tim, John, and I'. I remember the teacher saying, 'And, if you have to use the word me, then at least say tom, Tim, John, and me'. Haha. But I think both she and I and she and me works. Although my elementary school teacher told us you shouldn't use me in the beginning of the sentence, because that's not the "better" way, it doesn't mean it cannot be used nor that it is not grammatically correct. So I would sometimes say 'Me, Tom, Tim, and John', if I'm not feeling too self-conscious about myself.

I feel that people who use 'she and I' are people who just like to speak like they learned, and/or want to stay professional, and/or want to speak "formally'', etc.. If it's come to the point that she's correcting you, Elizabeth, then it's more likely that she is insecure in the style of speech that she uses, herself. She subconsciously recognises that she does not like using 'she and I', and because she had previously been forced to change her style, she also wants you to speak in that way. But don't worry, that's one of those up-for-philsophical/psychological debate topics.

Now, maybe people are confusing 'her' with the possessive 'her'. Remember, there are two meanings. For masculine, there is 'him' and 'his'. But for feminine, there is only 'her', which can mean either.

Using 'him', 'me and him' does make sense. Then, 'me and her' also make sense.
'I and her' does not make sense because 'I' is a special word, more than you'd admit, as it's only used alone, or at the end of the list. 'he and I' or 'she and I' does sound a little weird, but 'he' and 'she' are both starting words like 'I' is. Switching it around, 'me and her' and 'me and him' are still correct. Using 'her' is the common as well as the right way to use it. Remember I said 'I' is a special word. Well, 'I' doesn't like to be with other subject pronouns unless it's at the end of the list. 'I and she' or 'I and he' would not grammatical sense. It's because 'I' is like this narcissistic word. Once 'I' is in there, any subsequent referrals to 'he' or 'she' is changed to 'him' or 'her'. Given this, 'him and I' or 'her and I' should be perfectly corrrect.

The other issue is that 'she' and 'he' sounds more formal. Her brain is subconsciously mad at you, because you're using the more "informal" word 'her' with the "formal" syntax of using 'I' or 'me' at the end of the list, although 'I' should always be at the end of the list.

She continued to have weekend visits, as desired by she and her father.
She continued to have weekend visits, as desired by her and her father.

Which is the correct sentence? My instinct tells me it is the second (I was presented with the first), but I would appreciate feedback on this.

Bay....If you look back on the thread, Scyllacat has given a concise and coherent solution to your enquiry. Never forget Mr Wilde's quote. "Oscar Wilde would never refer to himself in the third person"

Going back to the beginning of the thread, starting a sentence with her or she, I learned in grade school to always drop the other person in the sentence as a way to remember and I've never had to think twice. I cringe when people start out with "Him and her, Him and me, etc."
Now in this case, to me, this sentence either way sounds awkward, however, the second one is correct. She is the subject at the beginning of the sentence but her is the object at the end.

I discovered this site while trying to clarify a doubt I had which wasn't answered here. Maybe someone can help me. In a conversation: Hey Lucas, who's she? (Lucas says: Who? She? Ah, she is Laura.) Isn't the "She" in "Who? She?" wrong? It sounds really off to me. I think it's like saying: Who are you talking about, her??? [Object pronoun] (That girl over there???) So you would refer to her as HER and not SHE. Is that right or am I missing something here?

@Linda - I totally agree with you that 'she' sounds off in that context, and I would say 'her' myself, as I'm sure most people would. But I've no doubt there is the odd pedant who will tell you it is an ellipsis (shorter form) of 'Who is she', and should therefore be 'she'.

The same people who tell us that in reply to the question 'Who did that?' 'I' is correct and 'me' is incorrect, which for most of us is utter nonsense.

Looking again at the original question, I've noticed that, apart from the fact that strict grammarians wouldn't allow "her" as the subject, there is an inconsistency here, in that "her" is objective and "I" subjective.

In neutral to formal English, we would indeed say "She and I travelled to Kansas together", but in Britain, at least, in informal conversation it's becoming quite common to use objective pronouns when there is a compound subject as in this example (but never with a single subject) - and in this case the "stand alone" rule doesn't apply. But when this happens, in the majority of cases "me" comes first, so "Me and her travelled to Kansas together" is probably more idiomatic than "Her and me travelled ...". But I stress, this only happens in informal, conversational English.

use.."she"..if ..you talk about person..
for example...""she is beautiful"
THEN
use.."her"..if..you..talking..about..on..her...
for example.."that is "her"Boyfriend"..

If i want to upload a photo with my girlfriend what should i use she❤️ Or her❤️?

Which is incorrect?
a. Lucia enjoys cooking more than him.
b. The success of the plan depends on us girls.
c.I wouldn't trust Nancy or her with my secret.

Use "it" in all cases, it's much easier.

And to think, I always thought it was much simpler than that. I always though "She" would go at the start of the sentence and "her" would go anywhere where else.

Set my Amy Schumer book down, that I'm about half way through, and was amazed at the similarity of you and she.

In Dyske's reply, shouldn't "As a writer, we put ..." be stated as, "As writers, we put..."?

I saw this sentence in a story and it didn't sound correct. What do you think? Here is the sentence..... She wondered if her and her friends could build it. I thought it should be....She wondered if she and her friends could build it. Which is it?

Just finished reading a novel. Two times the author used "her" when I thought she should have used "she". I was taught that if you continued with the sentence you could test which word is correct.
The author wrote: "No one believed in him more than her. (more than she did.) "But no one thought it more than her." (more than she thought it.)

It may be gaining acceptance but, as with "the girl 'that' won," it sounds terrible. She and I is a better choice.

which sentence between these and why?
1 she and he are the same family
2 he and she are the same family

Absolutely not !!! Your administrator is correct you are not.

Well if you remove "and I" it should make a proper sentence. So if you remove "and I" from "her and I went" it says her went. Which doesn't make sense, but she went does.

Question. Where does the "she" fall in the following sentence:
She and her friend will do something" or "Her friend and she will do something"? Technically, it seems like it should be the latter, but the former sounds better.

I believe in this case both are correct

As many others have so aptly noted, the Administrator in your anecdote was correct. The point about subject vs. object has been so concisely explained that I won’t repeat it.

Try to think about it this way. “Her” is always possessive: her degree, her resume, her partner, her job, her kids. It explains or modifies the noun that follows. If you think about it that way, you can understand how illogical it is to say “her went with me on vacation.” Or “her & I” drove to the hospital. (Yet, it would be perfectly fine, however, to say “her sister & I went on vacation” since her is paired with a noun. In that instance, her is used as the possessive that makes sense of, or modifies the noun “sister.”

I hope that helps.

Was that Emily and she in the car next to us?
Or
Was that Emily and her in the car next to us?

Which is correct, I wanted to send her and her dad on vacation or I wanted to send she and her dad on vacation

Which is correct? If I were a child I’d want her as a mother or If I were a child I’d want her for a mother?

Which is correct grammar, she and Miles or her and Miles

I have a friend who only uses "she", declension be damned. To hear her speak is the equivalent of bumping ones head on a low hanging branch, but one that you know is there. Example. Sheila " Martha has gone to university and is doing well." Friendwhoshallnotbenamed " I had heard that of she." Sheila, "Her mother told me." FWSNBN: " Carol is always encouraging to she." I've tried to explain it but she is absolutely convinced that speaking of someone you know as her, is ill mannered.

If "elizabethingram" is still in her probation period of employment, this company needs to FIRE her IMMEDIATELY!!!!!! ANYONE and I mean ANYONE who doesn't know correct English ONLY makes the company for which he/she works look beyond inferior!!! Does ANY company wish to be perceived as inferior??????????????