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jayles
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August 12, 2010
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“Anglish”
- July 9, 2011, 5:42pm
www.thecheers.org/Entertainment/article_2222_English-Politeness-and-Manners.html
“Anglish”
- July 9, 2011, 5:17pm
Ængelfolc: I think it was Willy Brandt (whom I heard giving a speech in 1964!) who said something like: If we want to sell abroad we must speak English, but if they want to sell to us, dann muessen sie Deutsch sprechen! Every working day I bow to the boss's wife (korean), put my hands in the prayer position and say "vannakkum" to a tamil colleague, shake hands with a Saudi student and make sure I use only my right hand to give him worksheets, I don't expect the Ukrainians to smile, but the brazilians are always in carnival mode, and I don't ask the Japanese any difficult questions in case they lose face... Man muss flexibel sein, wenn man mit Auslaender verhandelt
Things are no better or worse just different; we all have our quirks.
“Anglish”
- July 9, 2011, 5:00pm
Ængelfolc: "Why do these sentences come across as too sharp? They are more blunt, but that makes them better understood, feelings aside."
Yes indeed they are too blunt and leave feelings aside.
Generally if non-native speakers are using English, they are using it for business or in a business situation (incl tourism) or in some university/academic situation; so there is a need to be diplomatic and take into account the feelings or reaction of the person they are dealing with. English people use "softeners" to oil the wheels of negotiation, trading, and working together. So as well as the ones already mentioned you have doubtless noticed "actually", "in fact", "apparently", "it seems that", "as you may be aware" and so on inserted quite often into communication to soften the impact. If you are doing business in English a few extra words might avoid giving unintended offence, depending on whom you are dealing with of course.
There is I know a gulf between "European" and "English" thinking here; for example:-
walking down the street with a beautiful hungarian woman:
Me: Would you like a coffee?
She: Is that a Hungarian question or an English question? If it is hungarian the answer is no. If it is English then it means you want a coffee!
“Anglish”
- July 7, 2011, 6:05pm
Stanmund: the current terms "boarding pass" and "landing card" were in fact coined by a Viking travel agency which offered package summer adventure cruises round Europe with activities such as rape, pillage and plunder. It was big business at the time.
“Anglish”
- July 7, 2011, 6:00pm
Stanmund: yes indeed; but notice that in all but one case the question was prefixed with the politener "do you know"; this type of question is called "indirect" in the grammar books, as compared to a straight "When is the bus coming?" which might sound too brusque.
“Anglish”
- July 7, 2011, 1:41am
Ængelfolc: Another obvious example: "Could you tell me when the bus is due please?" is, of course, inherently more polite than "When is the bus due?".
“Anglish”
- July 7, 2011, 1:21am
Ængelfolc: "Are so many words a "must" in England?" I did exaggerate to make the point; however we do tend to prefix bad news with "I'm afraid"; and because we lack the implicit politeness of "Sie" I think we tend to use polite phrases to "wrap the package". Thus on the phone preordering to my local German bakery: "I was wondering if you could save a schwarzbrot for me." Response: "VVVhy do you always VVVunder???" This is gospel truth.
But truly Germany is not alone. My teach yourself Hungarian book notes: "Hungarians are more direct....there is hardly any understatement in Hungary". Just depends on whom you meet though.... we make exceptions for beautiful young women.
"Germans are often called "rude" or "abrasive"..." This is partly a slight clash of cultures (though we are both European in our thinking of course). But there is an underlying linguistic difficulty in the intonation patterns. English people tend to use a series of slightly rising intonations in a normal sentence with a fall only at the end. Some German-speakers seem to have a falling intonation on each word. To an English ear this often sounds preremptory or like a sargeant-major, especially if the speaker carries over the glottal stops from German. Very difficult to correct in an adult learner, unless they are prepared to spend their Sommerferien in England every year. Often not an issue if one picked up English from native speakers as a child - children get intonation easily.
mit freunlichen Gruessen
“Anglish”
- July 6, 2011, 9:32pm
Ængelfolc: the problem with "must" in modern English is the English feel it smacks of being too dictatorial, so often in business people attempt to soften the impact. Quite how we got to this situation I don't know, especially considering that "must" was originally a polite past subjunctive.
One of the difficulties for German speakers is to realize that in German using "must" seems to make things more polite, whereas the opposite happens in English. The same applies to "have to". ("need to " takes the edge off, but really we need to move from command mode to request mode to be safe when doing business).
So for example in a bank:
German: "Sie muessen an den anderen Schalter gehen."
English: "I'm terribly sorry sir, but you seem to have come to the wrong counter. I was wondering if you would like to go over to the other one please".
(Always remembering that length=politeness in England)
OTOH i too detest the work-around "to be able to" but it arises because modal verbs in English are defective in not having infinitives, whereas in German they still do. Also "will be able to" can often be replaced by a simple "can" but many european speakers of Englsh who have a specific future form of the verb in their own language fail to realize that any modal can be used to talk about the future in English.
Finally we should not overlook the fact that the commonest meaning of "must" in English is not obligation, but in fact "logical deduction" eg "Why is she late? She always comes on time. She must be sick or the bus must have been canceled."
Next lecture at 0200 tomorrow
“Anglish”
- July 6, 2011, 1:24am
And for all you diehard anglishers I confess to explaining the meaning of "annual" by starting with year, explaining the adjective is "yearly" and that annual means the same. This is the stuff which is so insane.
Questions
Five eggs is too many | July 1, 2013 |
“The plants were withered” Adjective or passive? | August 27, 2013 |
Which sound “normal” to you? | March 31, 2014 |
“it’s the put-er-on-er-er” | April 7, 2014 |
“Anglish”
AnWulf: except that "went" (commonly used as the past of "go" instead of "gang" as used in Scotland) presumably comes from "wend", and does not meander.