“Anglish”

@Stanmund:

hatred >> O.E. hatian + O.E. -rǣden (ending meaning state, condition, reckoning, reasoning, read, counsel, to explain, rule, advise)

hundred, kindred, hatred, O.E. burgrǣden "citizenship", lipread, speechread, asf. The ending is also found in Germanic names (cf. Alfred [O.E. Ælfræd]; Ethelred [O.E. Æþelræd])

No dates given but in sundry sources.

The Middle English Dictionary: [OF presse, prese & CL pressus & ML pressa.?Also cp. LOE presse a clothespress.] ... and I assume LOE means Late Old English. I don't know the dates of "late" OE.

Only my guess but it probably came in as a late Latinate shortly before the Occupation began ... I haven't seen anything with it in it

press f. press ... 1916, John R. Clark, "A Concise Anglo-Saxon Dictionary for the Use of Students", press.

press f. A press (in a list of requisites for spinning), Anglia ix. 263, 12. Cf. Pannicipium a presse, Wülck. 600, 14 : vestiplicium, 619, 10. http://bosworth.ff.cuni.cz/025350

Here is the declension:

press Strong Feminine Noun
press (for clothes)
press Singular - Plural

Nominative
(the/that séo) press - (the/those þá) pressa

Accusative
(the/that þá) presse - (the/those þá) pressa

Genitive
(the/that þære) presse - (the/those þára) pressa

Dative
(the/that þære) presse - (the/those þæm) pressum

Here is one of those frainable words: stun

Most will list it as from c1300 "probably" from O.Fr. estoner "to stun, daze, deafen, astound," from V.L. *extonare, from L. ex- "out" + tonare "to thunder".

Anytime I see VL, I get a little wary. Who took the word from whom?

At least the old Webster's gives a nod to OE stun:

Stun \Stun\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. Stunned; p. pr. & vb. n.
Stunning.] [OE. stonien, stownien; either fr. AS. stunian
to resound (cf. D. stenen to groan, G. st["o]hnen, Icel.
stynja, Gr. ?, Skr. stan to thunder, and E. thunder), or from
the same source as E. astonish. [root]168.]
1. To make senseless or dizzy by violence; to render
senseless by a blow, as on the head.

Astonish \As*ton"ish\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. Astonished; p. pr.
& vb. n. Astonishing.] [OE. astonien, astunian, astonen,
OF. estoner, F. ['e]tonner, fr. L. ex out + tonare to
thunder, but perhaps influenced by E. stun.
Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)

AS - Anglo-Saxon:
+stun n. din, crash, whirlwind.
stunian to crash, resound, roar: impinge, dash. ['stun']
tôðunian to astonish
* 1916, John R. Clark, "A Concise Anglo-Saxon Dictionary for the Use of Students"

@Ængelfolc ... *Forþgesceaft

"II. the future world, state, or condition, "He ða forþgesceaft forgyteþ and forgýmeþ" (he forgets and neglects the future)" ... You could use "world" and it would make sense too ... He forgets and neglects the world.

Of course, we're seeing it taken out of the writing so we don't know how it fits in overall. The thing is, if we edquicken the word as forthgeshaft ... or forthshaft ... It doesn't say "future". It means nothing without knowing that shaft has another meaning besides a staff.

The forthgeshaft of mankind is in doubt ... Folk will say, "Huh? What's forthgeschaft?"
The forthcome of mankind is in doubt ... Might sound funny but I think folk would know the meaning.
The to-come of mankind is in doubt ... Again, it might sound funny but would be understandable.
Even Stanmund's morrows would be understandable.
The (to)morrows of mankind is in doubt.

I don't mind using forthgeshaft or forthshaft but it would need to be glossed every time for quite a while.

Lots of word that can be edquickened:

beðryccan to press down.
beðrýn to press
ofsittan to press down, repress, oppress, : occupy,
hedge in, compass about, besiege. ['ofsit']
ofðringan to throng, press upon
ofðryccan (e, i) to press, squeeze, /: oppress, afflict, repress, /: occupy forcibly.
onâsettan to set upon, place on, impress upon
onðringan to press on or forward
press f. press
±ðringan to press, squeeze, crowd upon, throng

So pick how ye want to use them ... press, print ... if you like thrutch, then, from the list, you can also make bethrutch (to press down). Maybe thrutch=press; bethrutch=print.

Thrutch ... at first I paid it no heed since the only stead that I found it was wiktionary and unreferenced ... but I'v since found it at the Oxford Dict Online (I'll fix the wiktionary entry in a bit to show a reference).

noun Northern English a narrow gorge or ravine.
verb [no object, with adverbial of direction] chiefly Mountaineering
push, press, or squeeze into a space:
I thrutched up the final crack to a small pinnacle

Origin:
Old English (as a verb), of West Germanic origin

And some funny meanings here: http://thrutch.com/ ... for byspel - Dog's at it again, thrutching my leg last night.

Without children there are no tomorrows. (we already say this)
Without a befitting ?habitat/environment? there are no tomorrows.
There are no tomorrows in merchant banking. (just lots of dough now)

Re ranks (which if I recall is frankish in origin)
yeomen = the third order of fighting men (late 14c., below knights and squires, above knaves),

"To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day
To the last syllable of recorded time,
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. " Macbeth Act 5 Scene 5

So we could use "yesterdays" to mean the past

Past is eath ... bygone. Just use it as a noun. In the bygone, we had horses. Or yu can brook yesterdays ... just more typing.

Yes, rank is Germanic. Yeoman is kenning of geong>>>yeong + man >>> young-man. It's brooked by the navy as a position, clerk but not a rank. I have some pretty good thoughts on different ranks. OE had a few and I can spread out from those and others. For byspel, the Russian word for private means the one who stands in a line. So a buck-private could be a lineman.

I stumbled across another OE word that is still alive albeit with an unlike meaning. The verb "redd" means to tidy up O.E. hreddan "to save, to deliver, recover, rescue"
... Somehow it got confused with another verb, O.E. rædan "to arrange".

Both aredden and redden can be found in ME as "to save, to deliver, recover, rescue".

We need Anglo words for "to save, to deliver, recover, rescue". Can't really use redd in the old sense as it has lost those meanings ... And there are alreddy other words that are homonyms like read (bygone tense) and the hue red. Don't need another "red".

Maybe edquicken aredden as aredd? The 'a' adds another sound and helps with the spelling to tell the difference.

Things to think about.

I'v been stumped on how to um(b)-go (go around ... um+go or umb+go) clear, clearly and plain, plainly. Sometimes I can but often I can't without a lot of words. I found the answer. I'v checked "eath" before but it wasn't in OED. Who would hav thought it would be in Merriam-Webster but not in OED? But, on a lark, I checke M-W and there it was ... along with eathly and uneath.

In OE, it was also a noun meaning an easy to do.
And it was brooked as a forefast (hyphen not needed):
eath-seen ... easily seen, clear, plain
eath-fare ... easy to travel over
eath-find ... easy to find, easy to be found
eath-get ... easy to get, easily gotten
eath-yearn ... easily pleased
eath-win ... easy to win, easily won, easily obtained
... And many more!

So now I can say ... It's eath-seen (clear, obvious) that, blah, blah, blah.

The answer is unclouded.

Word Origin Influences Your Writing Voice

http://www.dailywritingtips.com/word-origin-influences-your-writing-voice/

Go and have your say.

ease >> is likely a Teutonic or Celtic word, not Latin. The root of O.F. aise is unknown, although some have thought that L. agius is the root; the root has not yet been borne out.

I put forth the following, even though William Walter Skeet would disagree:

ease

@Ængelfolc ... I agree with you. Eath and ease seem to be cousins. But you need to get someone with a bunch of stafs (staves?) behind his or her name to publish it in academia ... or at least post it on the web!

@Jayles ... That's good. I like unclouded. I'v alreddy used it!

Well, I just found out that the German word "umwelt" is in the OED. That takes care of the word environment! lol ... Now if we could just get 'em to list "zukunft"!

"umwelt" : the online dictionary gives the meaning as slightly other than in German:
"the environmental factors, collectively, that are capable of affecting the behaviour of an animal or individual"
"Without a befitting ?habitat/environment? there are no tomorrows." >>>
"Without a befitting umwelt and lebensraum there are no tomorrows."
somewhat post-Wagnerian I think.

While "habitat" and "environment" are sometimes said to mean the same thing, they are not:

"environment is the area in which something exists or lives; habitat is a the place or type of place where a person or thing is most likely to be found"--http://thesaurus.com/browse/habitat

Therefore, two words should likely be thought about to put in the stead of each.

@AnWUlf:

STUN is Teutonic, not Latin-French. See here: http://books.google.com/books?id=aDhGlKL3h00C&pg=PA478&lpg=PA478&dq=stun+etymology&source=bl&ots=t4xOj59bGh&sig=rP2TRuA1wZI7whE6f4bQ2qMO--s&hl=en&ei=leBuTrfmNaPe0QHOzf36CQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAzgK#v=onepage&q=astound&f=false

@AnWulf:

Another well-spring of word knowledge about STUN >> http://books.google.com/books?id=Z6sVAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA212&dq=stun+etymology&hl=en&ei=auJuTvqbOOrh0QHbtJn9CQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CE4Q6AEwCDgK#v=onepage&q=stun&f=false

ASTONISH isn't Latin-French either, although the word was shaped by Fr. estonner. The word has the same root as STUN.

Maybe it is because I'm tired but I don't see the OED's meaning of umwelt to being so unlike environment to worry about.

Umwalt OED
the world as it is experienced by a particular organism

Environment OED
the setting or conditions in which a particular activity is carried
the natural world, as a whole or in a particular geographical area ...

Not sure why habitat was brought into this but here is its meaning from the OED: the natural home or environment of an animal, plant, or other organism: ...

From a thesaurus for environment:

1 birds from many environments ... habitat, territory, domain; surroundings, environs, conditions.
2 the hospital environment ... situation, setting, milieu, background, backdrop, scene, location; context, framework; sphere, world, realm; ambience, atmosphere.
3 (the environment): the impact of pesticides on the environment the natural world, nature, the earth, the planet, the ecosystem, the biosphere, Mother Nature; wildlife, flora and fauna, the countryside.

Seems to me that whoever started using umwelt in English was just trying to show off his / her wordstock.

As they say ... The meanings of umwelt and environment are close enuff for gov't work! lol

Just found a new toy ... http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/ ... It lets you look at often words have been brooked in books over the years. Nothing really helpful but fun to play with. Forecast holds up fairly be foretell doesn't (against predict).

There's another thread on "Pain in the English" that has been running for seven years ... all over the spelling of "resume" and the brook of "curriculum vitae".

Quote of the day: "The every-day vocabulary of the less educated is of Old English, commonly called Anglo-Saxon, origin ..." from "The Romance of Words", 1912, Chapter 1.

I found another word that lives on from OE and can be found in the M-W wordbook tho only as a verb (it was a noun in OE), upspring: to come into being (originate), to rise up.

Also there is dree: to endure, suffer ... dree your weird (endure your fate/destiny ... you made your bed, now lie in it!).

I'v been thinking about words to use for "move" and its offspring ... motion, motor.

move >> shift

OMG I pretend to be an English teacher, but all I teach is greek french and latin:
today's crop: apology, apostasy, biology etc
debris, buffet , and buffet like blown by gusts of wind which is french too but you say the final 't'. What a silly tongue English is!

Speaking of French ... This Frenchie is claiming that French isn't Latin.

... the Romans were bilingual, speaking Italian and writing Latin
The Romans gave their Empire two languages: a spoken language which was Italian and a written one, Latin ... http://yvescortez.canalblog.com/archives/2007/12/16/7258295.html

Most of his blog is in French.

Shift is pretty good ... I shifted to a new house.
The offsprings would be ... maybe shiftness for motion ... The shiftness of an of object. Shiftor for motor? Maybe. The car's shiftor is broke again.

I'm still trying to figure out if the Saxons had a word for "please". They had "welgelîcian" ... That's a lot of syllables ... I can't imagine that they would say that for 'please" ... Or maybe that's why "please" took the spot. OTOH, maybe they were gruf like the Klingons and "please" just wasn't in their vocabulary.

As for an apology ... I demand that he expresses his sorrow ... likely easier to demand an apology.

Apostasy is shorter than "abandon a religion"

Biology --- lifelore?

When I don't know a word in Spanish, I reach for the nearest Latinate in English and that works about 90% of the times.

I help my friends learn English and sometimes it is tuff to shed some light on the words and how they're brooked.

when it comes to homing oneself, 'upping sticks' is out there as a meaning of 'moving' house/home/location

jayle's from your teachings, your English learners would have an understanding of the word 'apostasy' unlike most British folk. The only boast about my lack of English skills on here, is that it is nearer to that of most everyday English speaking folk, hence I had not the weest drift of what the Latinate 'apostasy' meant. At least the most unknown and makeshift of Germanic English can more oft than not be worked out by the nation's teeming millions of Athelunwellreads.

At my old inner city state school the classes from the same year were cleft into a pecking ladder. At the top stood 'Campion' in the middle sat 'Houghton' (hoo/high/hill and town) schoolboys deemed to have the least skill/hope were heaped into 'Rigsby' form. Like this until the school was shutdown in the in the 1990s.

Top, middle, and lowest rungs:

Norman
Saxon
Norse

@AnWulf

You're into your Sci-fi stuf, clocked the new Apollo 19 film has the wordset in it:

"up there in the *unmaned*"

ex skoose sem wah

*unmanned*

I am all for an anglish rebirth. I have been into this subject for a long time since finding out about Old English and studying it, together with Latin. I was astonished to find how much the heart of the English speech was ripped out after 1066. I read books written by William Barnes (who I recommend for all anglish readers [he was a Victorian teacher who often fought against the tide of modern Latinisation]) who made fine Anglish words and promoted their worth as a return to the soul of the language [why not 'starlore' for astronomy, or lifelore for biology, sundry for different; he made many of these simple but pretty word-swaps].

Furthermore, for the people who seem to think this is a pathetic, sad undertaking I would point them to take a look at our European neighbours. Many have academies that are becoming increasingly resistant to foreign borrowings. If they can do it why can't we? My G/F is Spanish and I am surprised and intregued by the Real Academia's ability to find Spanish (latinate) alternatives to words (many modern English words which are technological and scientific due to recently being discovered) in an attempted to keep the Spanish language 'Spanish'.

What does english do? Just blithely go with the flow until English is a mere jumbled mess with no soul? Then when English loses its Global power we will be left with a broken language.

Help enliven the speech of our forefathers and re-find our roots and be proud of our folkland once again.

Speaking of Rume (OE Rum - space), read this from NASA:

"This specific architecture was selected largely because it utilizes an evolvable development approach, which allows NASA to address high-cost development activities early on in the program and take advantage of higher buying power before inflation erodes the available funding of a fixed budget," NASA officials wrote in a statement.

Today's homework is to rewrite that. BTW, any thenung that puts out such trash should be shut down owing to that it uncloudedly has no layout for the zukunft.

@leode ... The Real Academia may put out "Spanish" words for use ... and maybe they're brooked in Spain but not in Latin America. Mexico has "el carro", "el pickup", "los breakers" (circuit breakers) and many more. Even in Argentina you find "la computadora" (rather than ordenador), "el laptop", "wi-fi" (they say wee-fee), pagina web (web page), and sundry others. English would be even hard to wield over. Now it would be like shutting the barn door after the horse got out. We must dree our weird!

The hardest thing is to break the mindset that somehow Latinates are better. Look how NASA in the byspel above brooks the Latinates to bewilder and befuddle!

Every day I try to slip in a little-brooked Anglo-root word in my chats and letters.

@Stanmund ... Just to be uncloudly ... apostasy isn't a "Latinate" ... It's rooted in Greek. Not that its a big deal, but when you talk about this with others the gainsayers will jump on it and will begin attacking you rather than your side of the talk.

I haven't found the wordset that "up there in the unmanned" but from the plot of the film, my guess is that the wordset means the "unmanned vehicles" ... unmanned due to the unknown wight.

Stanmund: "I had not the weest drift of what the Latinate 'apostasy' meant...."
Read all about it:
http://enrichmentjournal.ag.org/201101/201101_102_Apost_Backslide.cfm

I think the good English word "backsliding" is quite good enough. So no more backsliding into Greek or latinate words!

On a personal note I had a better day, dealing with wise>>wisdom; bore>>>boredom;
king>> kingdom, although it is hard to uncloud the meaning of "dom". (dominatrix??)

apostasy >>> late 14c., "renunciation, abandonment or neglect of established religion" from L. apostasia, from later Gk. apostasia, from apostasis "revolt, defection" lit. "a standing off".

I'll read that article later when I have time but I don't think that backsliding is the right word ... It might be in the specific case of a convert. A person that converts from Islam to Christianity is an apostate to from the Islamic point of view because he has left Islam. A person who leaves Christianity to be a Buddhist is an apostate from Christianity's view ... no backsliding there ... just leaving ... more like a traitor.

As I'm sure you know, the 'dom' in dominatrix is a Latin root dominari, from dominus ‘lord, master’.

The -dom afterfast is OE.
suffix forming nouns:
1 denoting a state or condition : freedom.
2 denoting rank or status : earldom.
3 denoting a domain : fiefdom.
4 denoting a class of people or the attitudes associated with them, regarded collectively : officialdom.
ORIGIN Old English -dōm, originally meaning [decree, judgment.] from stem *do- "do".

Related: doom ... OE dom "judgment, ordeal, sentence", lit. "to set, put".

A book of laws in OE was a domboc (doombook). Modern sense of "fate, ruin, destruction" is c.1600, from the finality of the Christian Judgment Day. As a verb, from late 14c.

dômbôc f. code of laws, statute-book, manual of justice ['doombook']
dômdæg m. 'doomsday,' judgment-day.
dômêadig mighty, renowned.
dômere m. judge ['doomer'] ... also a deemer
dômfæst just, renowned, mighty.
dômfæstnes f. righteous judgment, #LPs# 100^1.
dômgeorn ambitious: righteous.
dômhûs n. law-court, tribunal, #Gl#.
dômhwæt adj. eager for renown? strenuous in judgment? #Cr# 428.
dômian to glorify, magnify.
dômisc adj. of the day of judgment.
dômlêas inglorious, powerless.
dômlic famous, glorious, praiseworthy: judicial, adv. -lîce.
dômsetl n. judgment-seat, tribunal
dômsettend m. jurisconsult
dômstôw f. tribunal
dômweorðung f. honour, glory.

deem - OE 'deman' "to judge, condemn, think, compute," from base of dom.

dêma m. judge, ruler
dêmedlic that may be judged
dêmend n. judge, arbiter
dêmere m. judge ['deemer']

Now you can put alllll together for your learners.

AnWulf: " the 'dom' in dominatrix.." yes you're right, so dominant....
It's a great shame "doom' today means something else; otherwise we could brook "doomhouse" instead of 'court'.

"I spent so long in Eastern Europe that I became wonted to the music there especially the aeolian minors. " .... does that make sense to you???

@jayles: "doomhouse" instead of 'court'."

Isn't that what court is for most folks? ;-)

"I spent so long in Eastern Europe that I became wonted to the music there especially the aeolian minors. "

I might say, "wonted with the music..."

@Jayles ... "I spent so long in Eastern Europe that I became wonted to the music there especially the aeolian minors. " .... does that make sense to you??? ...

---

It makes perfect sense to me! I guessing that you're fraining the brook of "wonted" and yes, I understood it. I have brooked wont, wonted for years. I have been brooking it more as of late.

Doomsday means judgement day ... So Doomhouse would be the "judgement house" ... But it does have a dark feeling to it! lol ... Maybe the Deemhouse? Where the deemers (judges) deem? Or lawhouse, meaning where folk are deems by the law?

@Ængelfolc ... I think "wonted to" is better ... used to, accustomed to, habituated to.

Ængelfolc ... Maybe you have more info on the root "veloper" as in "develop" >>> 1650s, "unroll, unfold," from O.Fr. desveloper "unwrap, unfurl, unveil; reveal the meaning of, explain," from des- "undo" + veloper "wrap up," of uncertain origin, possibly Celtic (see Gamillscheg, Diez) or Germanic. ...

At least it doesn't appear to be a Latinate! Unless akin to L. volvere "to roll", as in involve >>> from L. involvere "envelop, surround, overwhelm" lit. "roll into". They look a lot alike to me!

Maybe change des- to un- ... unvelop ... but then how would one say "undeveloped"? ... un-unveloped? ... I think velop would need to stand on its on its own ... "to velop" ... maybe "tovelop"?

Does unfold make sense instead of develop? Sometimes, we can see how things unfold. As a noun ... unfoldness? The unfoldness of the Space Shuttle.

The upsprungal (upsprungle? ... upsprung + al or le):

"This specific architecture was selected largely because it utilizes an evolvable development approach, which allows NASA to address high-cost development activities early on in the program and take advantage of higher buying power before inflation erodes the available funding of a fixed budget," NASA officials wrote in a statement.

It's not any better in Anglish! lol

"This set framework was chosen mostly since it brooks a rootless way, which lets NASA tackle the high-outlay unfolding setting early on in the undertaking and make good brooking of higher buying strength before loss of worth of the untaken underwriting of a budget-fast (budget - Gaulish)," NASA reeves wrote in a remark.

AnWulf: gobbledegook is gobbledegook however you put it, whatever the tongue. It is meant to hide the truth. Most famously, a few decades ago, the British Navy got funding for a "thru-deck cruiser"; none of the politicians had the nous to ask, but yes it was an aircraft carrier, later used in the Falklands/Malvinas conflict. Anglish is not the answer to everything!

rootless >>> plug-in; add-on ???
development >> betterments, research ???

@AnWulf: "Maybe you have more info on the root "veloper" as in "develop" "

The words 'develop' and 'envelop' are Teutonic words with Latin prefixes.

* O.Fr. des- < L. dis- "to undo, part, separate, reverse, apart" (what's weird is that Gothic also had dis- as a prefix > cf. Gothic distaíran "to tear apart")

* O.Fr. en- < L. in- "in, into"

en-/develop < O.Fr. desveloper < L. en-/ dis- + O.Fr. voloper < It. velupare/volopare < maybe Langobardic (Teutonic *wlappan "to wrap, roll up, turn, wind" < Teutonic base *wlap- "to wrap, fold"). cf. O.It. goluppare; Walloon ewalpé; A.N envoluper; O.E. wlæpp(i)an.

Some like to say that "its [O.Fr. veloper] origin is lost in antiquity" or "of obscure origin" to bury the Teutonic root. Other have tried to link O.Fr. voloper to a Vulgar Latin *foluppa, which is some kind of garbled L.volvere(r). The breakdown here goes something like: O.Fr. voloper < O.It. viluppo "a bundle" < V.L. faluppa (*paluffa) "bundle of straw"; infl. by L volvere, to roll. It seems to me that faluppa is Northern Italian, and could have rather easily came from a Langobardic *wlappa(n), and not at all from L. volvere.

Anyway, all the words with -velop are Teutonic. Words that are akin to -velop > wrap, lap, warp

@jayles ... I must andett (confess) that I chose 'rootless' for evolvable more as a policy remark. I could have chosen 'growable' that would have fit NASA's meaning. Then again, growable would have meant using the Latinate 'able' as a afterfast.

I think if I were picking Latinates to keep, 'able' would be one of them. English has turned it into a good afterfast. In English, -able is used for erd-words (native words), -ible for words of eath-seen Latin origin. The Latin afterfast is not etymologically akin with able, but "it long has been popularly associated with it, and this has contributed to its survival as a living suffix". It is akin to the second sound of rudder and saddle.

I could go thru and find a more anglo afterfast ... but 'able' makes one lazy! lol

betterment >>> development ... putting aside the Latinate afterfast -ment, maybe but here it might be bettermental.

Then you must look at the whole wordset ... evolvable development approach
... growable (plug-in) betterment way? The problem is that the "English" is bad ... It should probably be evolvable developmental approach. Which would make your way ... plug-in bettermental way. That's still bewildering and befuddling!

Truly, the paragraph could be written: We're going to spend money without a plan.

A few of the hardest Latinates to tackle were:
inflation ... there are some good OE choices ... forblow, to blow out, inflate>>> forblowness; inblow, to blow in, inflate, puff up ... and inspire>>> inblowness; to to(e)blow, to blow to pieces, blast, scatter, puff up, extend>>>toeblowness, to(e)thind, swell up, inflate>>> toethindness.

Not so good choices for these ... most of the OE words have changed meanings or have a different shade nowadays. I can see why the onefold (anfeld) Latinates were brought in!
cost - dear± something
price - cheap± something
pay, payment ... yield, ayield, foryield, gild, gyld ± something, ±sceat/sheett/sheatt/skeatt, ±gafol, ±gescot (scot ... tax ... as in "scot-free")
money = fee, shat (Middle Eng - (a) Money, treasure; -- also pl.; (b) goods, property; -- also pl.; on ~, in property; (c) a portion; ~ ful.)

@Jayles ... research ... that's a Latinate tho search does look a lot like seek.

Seek is a great verb ... we don't really need search. One would think that since research is to 'look/search again', that one there would be a re- kind of word for seek ... as in edseek or even reseek but alas, there isn't.

There is 'aseek' in OE: âsêcan to seek out, select: search out, examine, explore: seek for, require. PPs: search thru, penetrate. ['aseek']

±cunnian (w. g. or a.) to search into, try, test, seek for, explore, investigate,
B, Bo, Sol; Æ, CP: experience: have experience of, to make trial of. ['cun'] ... cunning.

þurhsêcan to search through, inquire thoroughly into ['thruseek']

I thought 'beseek' would be one with 'be' as an intensifier ... but that becomes beseech!

And there are lots of other words for search/investigate/test/probe.

@Jayles ... LOL ... a thru-deck cruiser ... and no-one asked? I would have asked just for my own curiosity!

@Ængelfolc ... The OE forefast for 'dis' seems to be 'to' or 'tô' (Ger. zer). I don't mind Latin fore and afterfasts as long as they don't swap out an OE one. The only word that I know of that still has the 'ed-' forefast (re-) is eddy ... and even there it is somewhat hidden. Maybe it would just be eather to brook 'wrap' for 'velop' ... then develop would be unwrap ... still stuck with un-unwrapped for undeveloped tho.

If you have the references for all that about 'velop', I'll pass it along. ... And maybe keep develop in the wordstock.

Here's another odd one: scrutiny/scrutinize. ... The etymology is given as early 15c from Latin ... Yet, it is clearly in OE! It might be an early borrowing from Latin but it was there way before the 15c!

scrûtnian (ûd) to examine, scrutinize, consider
scrûtnung (ûd) f. search, investigation

[Cf. O. H. Ger. scródon, scrutón from L scrutari?]

@AnWulf:

For some deep insight on O.E. scrutnian/scrudinian, read, "The intellectual foundations of the English Benedictine reform" by Mechthild Gretsch, ppgs. 211-218.

From page 51:

"All occurrences of the verb scrutari 'to investigate' (nine in total), plus the sole occurrence if the noun scrutinium, are glossed by scrudnian and scrudnung, loans not recorded anterior to the Royal Psalter."

The Royal Psalter is from c.950 A.D. This is the earliest known brooking of the word "scrudnian/scrudnung" (as a gloss). The words appear only twice in Byrhtferth's Enchiridion (c.1010-12 A.D.); it seems that scrudnian/scrutnian were not well liked at all, nor used but two or three times; many English scribes had the words taken out of their writings to seemingly keep it out of English. The word should have gone the way of the Dodo. Sadly, "scrutiny" somehow was brought back sometime after c.1450-1600 A.D.

L. scrūtārī (present active infinitive of scrūtor < from scrūta "rubbish, trash, old or broken stuff" = to Gk. γρύτη) seems to be the root of the word 'scrutiny'.

@AnWulf: "The OE forefast for 'dis' seems to be 'to' or 'tô' (Ger. zer)."

I know this, but I guess I was asking, "did Latin borrow 'dis-', or do they share the same PIE root?" Many of the writings put this forth.

Teutonic/ O.E. to- < *twiz- "apart, in two, twain, asunder" < PIE *dwis- "in two, two-ways"; cf. German zu-, zer-, Gothic tus-, dis-

Latin dis- < PIE *dwis; kin with Ancient Greek δίς

So, we don't have to treat dis- as a Latin prefix, do we?!

@AnWUlf: "...still stuck with un-unwrapped for undeveloped..."

Get rid of the dash >>> ununwrapped

Now it looks Teutonic and sounds Teutonic. The word undeveloped is saying the same thing!

What are you talking about? And to whom?

@dogreed: "What are you talking about? And to whom?"

In the beginning of most posts, @ + screen name is how thread-writers know to whom something is meant to be said.

As of now, we are talking about how Old English words (that have been lost) might be able to be worked back in the latter-day English wordstock. We also talking about word shape, spelling, and Anglifying, what we think of as, wanton loans/borrowings with Old English words.

In addition, we talk about word roots, and where they come from; whether a word is truly Latin-French or Teutonic has been on our minds as of late. We also put forth thoughts about Anglish vs. English, Global-English, and other things about English overlall.

Lastly, we all do our best to write all of our thoughts with true English words. We try to lessen the Latin/Greek/French words whenever and where ever we can.

You may want to read the thread as it has been lively and most thought-stirring! If I missed anything, no one on this thread is shy about filling in the gaps.

Cheers!

Q: "parents" >>> "elders" or ????
"grandparents" >>> ????
"ancestors" >> forefathers
grandmother >> ??mother.

@jayles:

parents > O.E. ældran/ ældru

grandfather > O.E. ealdefæder ; great-grandfather > O.E. þridda fæder; great-great grandfather > O.E. fēorþa fæder

grandmother > O.E. ealdemōdor; great-grandmother > O.E> þridde mōdor; great-great grandmother > O.E. fēowerþe mōdor

ancestors > O.E. fōrecynn, forþfæder, lēodfruma, ǣrfæder
(paternal kin, forefathers > fæderencynn, forþfæderas)

Anglo-Saxons called father "father", grandfather "old father", great grandfather "third father", and so on. It could be easily switched over to be said in today's English.

@jayles: one more thing...

parents >> elders or folks

forebearers
forerunners
longfathers

house
roots
stock
stem
stalk
blood
birth

kind
kinsmen
kindred
household
strain
network

begetter

older
firstborn
oldest

I think Anglishers owe it to Bēda Venerābilis aka Venerable Bede to wield an English overset for 'Venerable' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bede

....

Father Bede

Wiseful Bede

Worshipful Bede

Wiseworn Bede

Worshipworthy Bede

Trusted Bede

Bewisened Bede

High standing Bede

Betrusted Bede

Highlied Bede

Father Bede

?

Hoary Bede

So that's where the English match for German 'Herr' lies. thesaurus.com doesn't seem to list 'hoar(y)' as a synonym under 'venerable'

hoar (adj.)
O.E. har "hoary, gray, venerable, old," the connecting notion being gray hair, from P.Gmc. *haira (cf. O.N. harr "gray-haired, old," O.S., O.H.G. her "distinguished, noble, glorious," Ger. hehr), from PIE *kei-, source of color adjectives (see hue (1)). German also uses the word as a title of respect, in Herr. Of frost, it is recorded in O.E., perhaps expressing the resemblance of the white feathers of frost to an old man's beard. Used as an attribute of boundary stones in Anglo-Saxon, perhaps in reference to being gray with lichens, hence its appearance in place-names.

/his hoariness Herr Einstein is highly hoaried/

Sadly "hoar" is also spelt "whore"; so "whore-iness" could be misunderstood.

@jayles:

Old English hār > English hoar

Old English hōre > English whore

Where did you see that there was an another spelling of hoar as whore? They could be said alike...

I just meant they sound the same

I just wrote this in my facebook because I was P.O.d about something. I started out writing in Anglish using old/no-longer-used English words and spelled it with a more "Anglo-Saxon"-spelling. However, it turned into something more of a modernized Anglo-Saxon.

ç = ch as in beach
ie = ee as in bean

Iç hæv(e) his wlity asien, his þahts ared, and his cwiþs ahiered. Nu iç wil to-brekan his liç for he hæþ forþeved þæt-wiç is min. Iç mote don naht for he dweleþ twó þusend mils afar. O min Lavord, ahiere-þu min inting.

I compare this simplified/modernized Anglo-Saxon to Peano's "Latino Sine Flexione". It is pretty pronounced as spelled though some vowels are deadened into a "schwa".

@ AnWulf... responding to your post on June 26, 2011.

I am now at the DLI. My language is Pashto. Class starts Thursday, September 29. I have been here since September 5th doing "Casuals" which are chores around the Air Force dorm building and parking lots. Those little baby-step stairs make me TIRED just walking up them to get to the PX!!!

Well guys, I've been offline for a week and I see that not much has changed in the world! lol

@addyatg ... Pashto should certainly be a challenge! I was lucky that the time between Basic and the start of my DLI class was pretty short. I stayed over at Ft. Leonard Wood for about week doing "casuals" there ... amazing the difference in attitudes of the drill sergeants once you've completed Basic and were officially a soldier. Then I took a little leave enroute to visit the folks so I arrived at DLI - Lackland with only a few days before the start of my class. Just enuff time to get settled in.

How long is the course for Pashto? Russian was 48 weeks when I went thru it.

@Ængelfolc ... I wasn't fraining your knowledge of OE forefasts "to-" and "tô-" for dis-, I was only thinking that develop would have been tovelop and then undeveloped would be untoveloped. Tho I like the German forefasts zer- and ver- better for they are less bewildering than "to" for "dis".

Speaking of German ... I'v found a whole list of German words in the English wordbook.

money - gelt (from Geld)
science - wissenschaft
pleasant, cheerful - gemütlich, gemütlichkeit
community (depending on type) - gemeinschaft, geselleshaft
spirit - geist
speech voice - sprechstimme

... and many others!

Now if I could just find genau and spiegel in the English wordbook! lol

@Ængelfolc ... Back to scrutiny ... My question was more about the OHG cródon, scrutón ... Did these come to German from scrutari? Or did scrutari come from the OHG? Or are they even akin?

@ Stanmund ... hallowed = venerable

hallow |ˈhalō|
verb [ trans. ]
honor as holy : the Ganges is hallowed as a sacred, cleansing river | [as adj. ] ( hallowed) hallowed ground.

• formal make holy; consecrate.
• [as adj. ] ( hallowed) greatly revered or respected : in keeping with a hallowed family tradition.

noun archaic
a saint or holy person.

ORIGIN Old English hālgian (verb), hālga (noun), of Germanic origin; related to Dutch and German heiligen, also to holy .

@addytag ...
"ç = ch as in beach
ie = ee as in bean

Iç hæv(e) his wlity asien, his þahts ared, and his cwiþs ahiered. Nu iç wil to-brekan his liç for he hæþ forþeved þæt-wiç is min. Iç mote don naht for he dweleþ twó þusend mils afar. O min Lavord, ahiere-þu min inting."

Interesting but hard to read. Indeed, there are some words that I'm not sure of the meaning.

BTW, I'v had long debates about whether "ic" in OE was truly said as "iç" in late OE. At best, iç was a late West Saxon dialect pronunciation and likely even then a minor one.

As for spelling ... that's a long soapbox but you must keep in mind how the words were said. Saxons sometimes used diacritics but often not thus mīl was not said like mil tho oft written as mil. Do not believe the oft said myth that OE only had one way to say letters or that they were always said a this way or that way if before this vowel or that vowel. It anfald isn't true.

O.E. ic, ih = iç (said like "itch")? 'iç' is found in Turkish, and means "inside". I have never seen any written work say that O.E. ic, ih was ever said like "itch" or "ish".

Can anyone tell me of a book I can look this up in?

@AnWulf

Pashto is 63 weeks long. Graduation date is Feb 14, 2013.

@AnWulf: "My question was more about the OHG cródon, scrutón ... Did these come to German from scrutari? Or did scrutari come from the OHG? Or are they even akin?"

L. scrutari and OHG scrutilon(scrodon/sruton < PGmc. *skrūdan) are said to come from the same PIE root *skreu- ; both words also took on the meaning "inquiring into, investigating". Wordlorists say that 'scrutiny' entered English through Latin, and that OHG scruton, English shrew, shroud, shred, screed, among others came from the Teutonic root.

See >> Et Cetera, Et Cetera: Notes of a Word-Watcher by Lewis Thomas

@Ængelfolc ... Thanks for the into. It looks like scrutiny falls into that gray area since it, at least, has a truly near Germanic cousin. My guess that it might have been in the tongue just sleeping and was eathly ed-called upon hearing the Latin word. But it is just a guess and maybe even wishful thinking ... but enuff for me to keep scrutiny on the brookful list.

As for "ic" sounding like "i(t)ch" ... that is now the "academic consensus" of how it was was said in the West Saxon dialect from which we get most of the Anglo-Saxon writings. Most sites will tell you that the "c" = "ch" before and after the vowel "i" ... thus "cild" is said as "child". There are many byspels of the AS word beginning with "c" that, in nowadays English, have a "ch" sound. Sometimes, but not oft, the writers in AS put a dot above the "c" to betoken the "ch" sound.

However, I strongly gainsay that is said as "ch" or "ç" on the back end aside from maybe a few folks. "Ic" was said as "ik" in the northern part of England. Indeed in ME you'll find ik, ike (like my beloved ikke from Berlin) as well as ich and iche ... and other spellings (like ih). I could believe that "ic" could have had the sound of the Scottish "ch" as in "loch" or the German "ich" ... or I could even go as far as "ish" like in Swabia ... but "i(t)ch" or "iç" just sounds all wrong to me. So I fall in with those who use the "northern" way or the "early migration" way of saying the word as "ik" or "ich" (with the ch like in German ich or Scottish loch).

@addyatg ... 63 weeks for Pashto? Wow, that's long. I'v heard of similar lengths for Arabic but that usually involves something like 48 or so weeks for basic Arabic with another 15 or so for a dialect.

Years ago I learned a little Farsi which is a kissin' cousin to Pashto. Except for that hen-scratching they call an alphabet, I didn't find it difficult ... but then, I only learned a little. Oddly, when Persians use the Latin alphabet, they include the vowels which does make it a lot eather to read.

so would you tell your girlfriend you have :
a) jock itch
b) tinea cruris
c) ringworm
d) athlete's foot
choose mindfully... you are not willing to put her off...

100 most frequent Middle English words

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:MwGwpyXmg_cJ:www.csustan.edu/ENGLISH/perrello/Chaucer_glossary4-30.pdf+middle+english+words&hl=en&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgG9-W6AogC312yRSptK1hcTz1KGYEnUyvVRF4TDQVzx58zpcR6GgxSA8pCC5Sox1_QrYy8jk3GWJgoPCUnckoY7QZC7OzPe9Oxw2PH-tHI-dKu8TLMzHb_CaYINlGl5SkJWnJp&sig=AHIEtbQyMdXzzOey3bImWPHLwicUg1mbcg

'wantrust' for distrust. Guessing: wane + trust

The Months in Old Ænglisc:

January > Æfterra Geola
February > Solmonað
March > Hreðmonað
April > Eostermonað
May > Ðrimilcemonað
June > Ærra Liða
July > Æfterra Liða
August > Weodmonað
September > Haligmonað/ Hærfestmonað
October > Winterfylleð
November > Blotmonað
December > Ærra Geola

SEE > http://larashots.com/appleyard/nasc/nascprev.htm

@Jayles ... If I had athlete's foot, I wouldn't tell her that I had jock itch! lol ... Actually, I've had to tell tell a gf ... and I used the term jock itch and she helped me find the right stuff at the drugstore ... that was marked for jock itch! lol

@Stanmund ... good catch, "wan" was a forefast as far back as OE.

±wana m. lack, want, deficiency / w. bêon to lack, fail. (same root as wane)
wanhælþ f. (wanhealth) weakness, sickness (without health)

The only word that I know of that still has it is wanton ... wan- + OE teon (or pp togen) (train, discipline) ... wanton is "lacking/without discipline".

Dutch still has wan- and German wahn-.

That might solve the "develop/undevelop" problem ... wanvelop and unwanvelop or unvelop and wanunvelop ... still funny when one knows that velop means "to wrap" and develop is to "unwrap".

Here ya go: Wantrust is legit: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)

Wantrust \Wan"trust`\, n. [Pref. wan- as in wanton + trust.]
Failing or diminishing trust; want of trust or confidence; distrust. [Obs.] --Chaucer.

---

Here's my tuffy for the day: claim ... as in a claim/assertion

He claims/asserts that John took your pencil.
Is it your claim/assertion that Pluto is a tungol?

I found in OE:
onspǣc - onspeak
ontalu - ontale?
ontige

He onspeaks that John took your pencil.
Is it your onspeak that Pluto is a tungol?

Found these by accident:

To study hard ... swot ... Teachers spend their evenings swotting up on jargon.
noun - a person who studies hard, esp. one regarded as spending too much time studying.

If you're looking for a word for labor/toil ... it's "swink" (OE swink, ME swinken)

For which men swink and sweat incessantly. - Spenser.

tholen swink ... to make an effort

For the verb form, it looks like swink then either swank, swunk(en) or swonk, swonken

swinker - laborer
swinkful - Full of toil, hard-working, diligent; as noun: those who toil or labor.
swinkfulness - diligence

So now the Department of Labor would be the Department of Swink! ... The Labor Party would be the Swink Party! lol

Angelfolc: perhaps you could modernise the months; my OE is limited. Is Weod like Wednesday? Why not Midsummer month? "Easter" sometimes falls in March not April.

Anwulf: I chickened on "jock itch"; "tinea cruris" sounds less "rustic" ..... "ringworm" sounds horrible...

Txs

@jayles: "Is Weod like Wednesday?"

WEOD > WEED; Wednesday > Wōdnesdæg > "Day of Woden (Odin)"

@jayles: ""Easter" sometimes falls in March not April."

If I am not mistaken, Eostermonað ran from about March 21st-April 21st every year.

January > Æfterra Geola > Following Yule
February > Solmonað > Mud Month/ Cake Month (no one is really sure)
March > Hreðmonað > Hreða's (A.S. goddess) month
April > Eostermonað > Eoster's (A.S> goddess) month
May > Ðrimilcemonað > Three milkings month (cattle were milked three times a day)
June > Ærra Liða > First Traveling Month
July > Æfterra Liða > The Following Traveling Month
August > Weodmonað > Month of Tares (weedy plants like a vetch)
September > Haligmonað/ Hærfestmonað > Holy Month/ Harvest Month
October > Winterfylleð > Winter Full-Moon (Winter began on the first full moon)
November > Blotmonað > Blood Month (Slaughter surplus livestock before Winter)
December > Ærra Geola > First Yule

@Jayles ... Remember that Eastre was the Goddess of Fertility (and likely other things as well) ... thus the Easter Eggs which have nothing to do with Christianity. Just as it did with Winter Solstice, the Christian church merely worked the Heathen-fests into Christian-fests.

Also keep in mind that the Saxon months didn't exactly (genaulich?) match the Christian months so there is a little play in the days.

Ironically, the Saxons had a 13th month that was thrown in after X years to get the rimbook back in sync (the third travelling month). Now, I can understand that, since the Germanic tribes didn't have the thought of a seven-day week until the Romans, that the Germanic tribes stuck with the moon-rimbook. But you would think that the Romans and later Gregory would have marked that the seven-day week would fit well into a 13-month year (each month having 28 days) much better than trying to stay with moon. In sooth, I didn't even think about it until I was in Germany and my German gf told me that salaried employees got an extra month's pay at Yuletide to make up for the fact that there should be 13 months. So if *I* were to do the rimbook over again, there would be 13 months!

I'm ok with brooking the first nine months ... let's anleth (face) it, some of the Saxon names for those months aren't "inspiring". "After Yule" ... naw. I'd be ok with Sol, Hredþa, Eastre ... but Three-milkings? ... I'd stick with May ... Maybe Lītha (Līþa < līþ root for mild, to sail, to travel) for June but 2nd Lītha for July? Naw. ... Maybe your "Midsummer" for July and Midwinter for January? I'm good with August ... It's a strong sounding name.

It's Sep - Dec. that I would put the fustra (focus) on and knock out. While Harvest-month would be good for the northern halfworld, it wouldn't describe (show, tell?) the happenings in the southern halfworld. So maybe Halig (Holy).

Winterfilled, Winterfill, Winterful(l), or Winterfyl for October might be a little bewildering unless one knows that Saxons, more or less, had two seasons ... winter and summer that began and ended on the equinoxes. But I'd be ok with it.

Blot or Blood for November is ok.

Yule would be good for December.

FWIW ... those are my thoughts on the months.

I was just at the Anglish Wiki ... I think somebody over there must be reading this thread or else Ængelfolc is adding stuff! :)

There are a lot more OE suggestions than on my last visit.

Allhallown
a.1.Of or pertaining to the time of Allhallows. [Obs.] "Allhallown summer." Shak. (i. e., late summer; "Indian Summer").

And, we all know, that the day before allhallows is halloween ... :)

1) Isn't it strange how latinate (and greek) words sound stuffy, snobby, or one-up, whereas words like 'baksheesh' and 'bazaar' (vasar in hung) just sound colourful?

2)BTW my laptop just died... can't get Ubuntu to reinstall. Saxons never had this prob.

@Jayles ... I'm with you about latinates ... on another thread, I told the guy that that latinates were pompous, pretentious, and arrogant (I brooked latinates so that he would uncloudyly understand).

I should add wimpy. Earlier on a Star Trek Phase II forum, I commented on the video of a Klingon saying to Kirk something like, "If you voluntarily share the information ..." and "I will extricate the information..."

Voluntarily share? Extricate? What a wimpy Klingon ... I suggested: The Mind Sifter will rift your mind and leave you witless. But I will get what I want.

OTOH, Greek-root words often have those consonant clusters and hard sounds ... throne, problem, agony, asf. that I like.

I just came across baksheesh the other day. Don't forget loanwords like purdah (curtain, veil < Persian), klong (canal < Thai), qanat (channel, tunnel < Persian), honcho (Japanese), boonies (from boondocks < Tagalog), lanai (porch < Hawaiian), kayak (Inuit) ... I have a bunch of them! lol ... All of them are in the wordbook.

Now for some more weighty frains ... the word "teld" is in the wordbook as a noun (tent) and verb (to set up camp). It's a weak verb, thus past and ppl are telded. In OE and ME, it was a weak verb as well (teldian)

However, "to cover" in OE was beteldan ... a strong verb. (I've seen betild in ME tho I can't find it now.) The odd thing was that the present tense was betild(), past beteald/betulde(n), ppl betolden.

If I want to ed-quicken this word, then I think it's best to use beteld to keep the kinship with teld ... they share same root. I'm thinking beteld, betold, betolden ... but is that too close to tell, told, told? ... There was an OE verb betellan but it was a weak verb.

Would betold be befuddled with told? So maybe beteld, betild, betolden? Or beteld, betuld, betolden?

Or wimp out and make it weak like teld ... beteld, betelded, betelded?

I covered the table ... I betold the board or I betild the board or I betelded the board? Your druther(s)?

@ AnWulf
i'm wondering now if 'teld' for 'tent' has anything to do with: (t)oldrums and t(e)ntrum?

doldrums
1811, from dulled, pp. of dullen, from O.E. dol "foolish, dull," ending perhaps patterned on tantrum.

tantrum
1714, originally colloquial, of unknown origin.

/the sharpest longbowmen from the day were kinded a good nights wink in teld rooms/ ?

/after the heat of battle a good bowman is an even better bowman after the still/dull (silence) of teld rooms (doldrums)/ ?

/camping in a tent is wonderful, but camping in a tent through a day of rain can leave those that dwell inside in the doldrums, hence all the mobilehomes, caravans and chalets rather then tents on many so-called campsites these days.../ ?

/when bad weather hits small tented rooms (tents) the doldrums (teld rooms) hit those inside/ ?

Florence Nightingale dulls wounds in teld rooms

nightingale yells dulls wounded yells

'in the doldrums'

'IN the doldrums'

'IN'...

'IN' the tent'

'IN' the ROOMS'

'IN' the teldRUMS'

'IN' a tantrum'

'IN' the tent rooms'

'IN' the doldrums'

How is Johnny Longbow? ..well he was once a mighty warrior but took a hit and ended up broken in a field hospital tent room (teld rum)...so has you can imagine he's a bit in the doldrums...

from the thrill of the battlefield to the doldrums of the field hospital

Teld in ME also picked up the thought of "shelter" ... A temporary dwelling, tent; also, a permanent dwelling, castle, fort, hut, asf. "Under teld" was to be under someone's roof. So a teld room would have been a sheltered place for the bowmen to rest.

For the rest here, I'm just brainstorming ...

Tantrum, 1711, is too far from OE (over 600 years). If it were nearer to OE, I could make a good guess but I don't think that tantrum would have floated around for 600 years before being written down. Maybe it was and we just don't have it, but not likely. By 1711, there was the printing press, English was in wide use, and a lot more folk could read and write. It also depends on who first brooked it. If it came out of Scotland ... maybe there is a kindred of some kind to an OE word since Scotland still has a lot of OE words.

I've seen -trum brooked but not in any truly steady way ... even tho it does have meanings as a word and a afterfast, but none of them fit.

That being said ... Maybe you could link it to the verb "to tan" ... as in "tan his hide". After you tan a kid's hide, he's crying and wailing ... a tantrum.

As for doldrums, I think the etym. could be a tad bit off. ... One of the past part. of dullen was "dold". In ME (and even later in) we still had the dative case sometimes popping up ... thus to be in the "dold(s)" would have been doldum. (dat pl). ... Add the "r" for pronunciation and then make that pl again and you have doldrums ... or just as likely in 1811 ... someone may have been playing around and thinking he was latinizing dold by adding the um ... or, as it says, it was played off doldrums.

But likely not akin to teld.

@Jayles ... Could use your grammar insight here.

"What can I do besides complaining" sounds wrong to me but I can't say why ...

I think it should be complain. What can I do besides complain. What can I do but complain.

However, "Besides complaining, what can I do?" sounds ok.

Any thoughts? Or am I completely off base here?

@Ængelfolc - spend OE spendan ... O.H.G. spendon, Ger., M.Du. spenden, O.N. spenna ... from L. expendere?

I'v set off another firestorm about the Anglo-Germanic - Latin fight! lol

http://painintheenglish.com/posts/view/4677

@ AnWulf:

O.E. teld < PGmc. *teldan (cf. German Zelt, ON tjald, Low German telt, O.Sax *teld) >> This Old English word gave today's English "tilt".

Spend < M.E. spenden < O.E. spendan < L.L. spendium (L.L. dispendere, not expendere), an early West Germanic Low Latin borrowing from the 600's AD.

"What can I do besides complain" : sounds okay to me too
"Besides complaining,.... " Okay too.
Besides is grammatically described as both an adverb and preposition so it doesn't matter too much how one uses it. English grammar is as long as a piece of string. What sounds okay IS okay.

"Would betold be befuddled with told?" let us not forget that "bezahlen" is german for to pay, as in : "Wollen wir die Rechnung bezahlen, oder einfach....na los!!!"
One day you might need "betel/betoldl" instead of "pay/paid"??