“Anglish”

@jayles: "I am shielding English from outlandish inflows."

LOL...ROFLMAO! >> how's that for "outlandish inflows" from the Technology Age that have sickened English!

I have read that in in South-West Lincolnshire, England, the folks say things like, "He has happened a bad accident" (A bad accident happened to him); "He happened a misfortune last back-end." Sounds awkward to me, too.

Also, while looking this up, I found a word to put in stead of "occur": Hap!

"Karma is a theory of causation: because this happed that happened."

"What accident hath happed Hieronimo?"

It's great, since it can be used with "happen". As for "happened accident", I guess you are right. Although it would be good to have something like this to mean "an accident that had already happed." Maybe a "happed accident". I am for getting rid of "accident" altogether, and simply saying "mishap".

If you want your head to spin ... just go to wordbook websites and see the "word of the day". You get stuff like "garçonnière" which means "a bachelor pad" I submitted to wikitionary "lightfast" as a WOTD. It's in the wordbook and means "resistant to fading".

I can't think a bysel where I would brook hap (v) instead of happen. I'm trying to think of when I would use hap instead of luck. I'm pretty tired right now so I'm just not getting anything.

I have found some interesting words the past few days while digging around.

If you need a word for pierce that is still in the wordbook, try "thirl", I like the ME spelling of thurl ... þurl better, but thirl is still in the wordbook. Frith still in the M-W wordbook to not in the meaning of peace. Many words are still there ... They just need to be brooked and brought back to life.

Anwulf: I think you can keep "trait" as long as you pronounce the final "t" !!

@Jayles ... Does that mean that I can keep rendezvous as long as I pronounce the final 's'? LOL ... Like Illinoizzzz.

AnWulf: Oh dear, opening up such a great can of worms! I meant that since "trait" is an old Norman-french word, short and long established in English we could/should just keep it. It is nonsense to be 100% purist; no language is. It is a matter of keeping the borrowings within reasonable bounds.
"rendezvous" could obviously well be "rendered" as "meetup" or something more English.
No-one has yet put forward changing place names as part of the framework for Anglish!

AnWulf: "He is the communications officer." There are of course two words already in anglish for "communications": commonspeak and commonmakings, both usually shortened to "comms" so "He is a comms headtrooper" QED!

@jayles >> "It is nonsense to be 100% purist; no language is. It is a matter of keeping the borrowings within reasonable bounds."

YES! Although it's not Norman...the word "trait" came into English about the end of the 1400's. Trait < Mid.Fr. trai(c)t(s)--- (pp. of F. traire) < L. tactus < L. trahere "to pull, draw, drag, or move out".

Words from the same Latin root are > treat, tract, trace (pl. of trait, 'trais'), tractor, attract, contract, subtract, portrait (F. 'trait-pour-trait'), asf.

Funny, French "cheval de trait" = English "draught-horse". So, why not neatly English trait by "calquing" it?

AnWulf: "If you need a word for pierce that is still in the wordbook, try "thirl", I like the ME spelling of thurl ... þurl better, but thirl is still in the wordbook. "

Yeah, "thirl" is used everyday in the word NOSTRIL (nos(u) + thyrel = nose hole)!

LOL! ;-)

rendezvous >> F. (lit. present yourselves) >> Anglo-French could be "render yourselves" >> English "show yourselves"...literally, of course.

meet-up, get together, hangout, forgather, tryst (O.N. treysta, traust), asf.

Garçonnière: F. garçon "boy, servant, waiter" (oblique form of gars (12.c) "lad, boy") < Old French garçun< VL (g)w(a)racio(n) < Frankish *warkkjo, *wrakkjo(n) + -ière (fem. suffix meaning 'location')

@AnWulf: "His height, his strength, and his wit are traits wanted by many."

Old English has 'mearcung' which means "characteristic". Feature and Trait fit in with 'characteristic'. We could get rid of these words that are needless and overmuch > quality, feature, characteristic, trait, attribute, property, and sign. Maybe others, too!

Teutonic words are sharper in meaning. A "man of mark" is a man of worthy, noble character.

"His height, his strength, and his wit are marks wanted by many."

"Body thirlings by skilled craftsman: ear- nose- tongue- and belly-thirling and tattooing".
Harold looked up, only to have an arrow thirl his left eye; "should have seen that coming"
he thought dolefully.

"There is more to the craft of body-thirling than meets the eye"

Something out of left field....

Þuma (thumb), scytelfinger (index finger, lit. wagging finger), middelfinger (middle finger), lǽcefinger (ring finger, lit. leech finger--how seemly!), eárefinger (little finger, pinky, lit. ear finger)

@AnWulf: "Only Icelandic has a different word than a form of communication"

How do you mean "communication"? In German, we have a lot of ways to say and to mean this.

Some Ænglisc Grammar Names

noun >> nama
plural >> manigfeald
perfect aspect >> fullfremend
adverb >> biword
vowel >> selfswegend, clipiende stǽf
accusative >> wregendlic
case >> geendung

yes some languages (I think Portuguese off the cuff) have the same word for noun as name, which I guess is good enough. "manifold" for plural is sort of workable, just it is also part of the exhaust system of a piston engine. "byword" already exists with a a fully other meaning so I am not sure whether the two could co-exist without muddling. Perhaps "selfsound" for vowel? And verb ??? we do say "action word"; "doing word" is to "vague" / unclear I think.

The snag with "commonspeak" is that "common" is a Latinate.

OE has several words for common but none truthfully lived thru aside from "churl" whose meaning has changed and not for the good. In OE, churlfolk (georlfolc) meant the 'common people, the public'.

Gemene (gemæne) lived thru to ME as i-mene which would likely be amen(e) (i-mid became amid and i-mong become among). Gemana was society.

There was 'mana' - community (gemana was society); to-manan - in common which lived thru to ME as 'mone' and 'y-mone' - share, companion, company. However, anything with "man" or "men" in it becomes fodder for "political correctness".

Samodeard and samodwist both had a meaning of 'common existence'.

So I come full-ring ... to samodspeak ... samodsprak ... samodspreck.

mark = trait? Maybe ... But a "marked man" is usually a condemned or targeted man.

Back to thirl ... I like thurl because that's the way I say it and there is no muddling with thrill (same root). Yes, nostril is a kenning of nose+thirl with the i and r swapping places. It's a wonder that someone didn't swap it with a Latinate!

@Ængelfolc ... communications in German is Kommunikation and maybe Nachrichtenwesen. I know that Nachrichten is news ... wesen is the essence or being or nature. Maybe it is because of the inflow of English but communications with a 'k' seems to be common thru-out Scandinavia as well aside from Iceland.

The index finger is also known as the forefinger ... pinky is from Dutch.

I have a whole list of OE grammar words. Not many of them make any more sense than the Latinates ... maybe because many (not all) came in from Latin pre-1066.

For singular - anfald (onefold) is good. I'd keep the OE anfald for grammar maybe even for "single" ... She is an anfald woman ... lol ... you can see where "an" came from. (OE, in the beginning, didn't have articles). Make it a kenning ... anfaldwoman and anfaldman (bachelor). So now my bachelor's pad is an "anfaldmanpad" LOL ... Getting to be like German and stringing the words together!

Plural ... manigfeald (manyfold to make it unlike manifold?) ...

For the shortenings ... 'an' for anfeld and 'mn' for manyfold or 'mg' from manigfeald? Or take the first and last staff ... 'ad' for anfeld (might be muddled with 'ad' from Latin) and 'md' for manyfold.

Things up in the air:

Which word to use for example:
bisen (bysen), verb bisenian > ME bisne (example, parable), verb bisenen - to give an example, MD; bisend, pp. likened, signified

Could be muddled with: Bi-sen, v. to look, to behold, consider, to arrange, appoint, to manage, MD, S; besie, S; biseo, S2; bisið, pr. s., S; bise, imp., W; byse, S2; biseh, pt. s., S; bisay, S2; beseyn, pp. arranged; beseyne, decked; besene, equipped, S3; biseye, as in phr. yuel biseye, ill to look at, C2, richely biseye, splendid in appearance, C2.—AS. biséon, to look about.

Or

bispell also bigspell (example, proverb) bispellboc (big-) - Book of Proverbs > ME bi-spel - parable tho it is listed from OE bigspell (parable) > make it nowadays byspel (like German Beispiel) ... I like this one because of that even tho bisen seems to be a better fit.

Or

forebysen (model, example, pattern) - German Vorbild? Which would make bisen/bysen like Bild.

I lean to byspel for example and bisen for mode, pattern, form with forebysen being a modal.

"instance" although perhaps taken from latin has the same roots as "In" and "stand"

I found byspel with one of the meanings being "example" in an online dictionary ... I'm good to go! http://englishdictionaryonline.co/search/byspel

In this instance, 'instance' is one of those false friends ... While it may share the PIE with stand, it is Latin while stand is Germanic ... and this likely led to muddling the use of the words and meanings.

instance - mid-14c., "urgency" from O.Fr. instance "eagerness, anxiety, solicitation" from L. instantia "presence, earnestness, urgency" lit. "a standing near" from instans (see instant).

In Scholastic logic, "a fact or example" (early 15c.), from M.L. instantia, used to translate Gk. enstasis. This led to use in phrase for instance "as an example" (1650s), and the noun phrase to give (someone) a for instance (1959, Amer.Eng.).

Whereas stand - O.E. standan from P.Gmc. *sta-n-d- (cf. O.N. standa, O.S., Goth. standan, O.H.G. stantan, Swed. stå, Du. staan, Ger. stehen), from PIE base *sta- "to stand" (L. stare "stand").

@jayles >>> the Old English grammar names are the true names that were used in Old English!!!! I did not make them up. What this means is that the Latin names were NOT needed.

@jayles: "I am not sure whether the two could co-exist without muddling."

Doesn't English already have a lot of this anyway??!! I give you SOUND >>>

>>> sound (mechanical wave,noise), sound (free from harm), sound (adv. deeply, thoroughly "sound asleep"), sound (v. to measure depth of water, hole, asf.), sound (to seek indirect feedback, "Why not sound him out about working for us?"), sound (n. a relatively narrow passage of water between larger bodies of water or between the mainland and an island)...and so forth and so on.

There are about twenty meanings for "sound" with the same spelling, but unlike parts of speech.

It seems to me "biword" would be fine next to "byword", especially if the "i" was keep in the word meaning adverb.

My 2 Marks! Nix fuer ungut!!!

@AnWulf: "communications in German is Kommunikation and maybe Nachrichtenwesen."

Yes, we do say "Kommunikationen", but also it depends on what one wants to say:

> telecommunications : das Fernmeldewesen
> communications network: das Nachrichtennetz
> radio communications: der Funkverkehr, das Funkwesen
> communication: die Mitteilung , der Austausch (of data), die Meldung, die Verbindung, die Vermittlung

And many, many others. Kommunikation is a business word that came likely from English,

"mark = trait? Maybe ... But a "marked man" is usually a condemned or targeted man."

One word can have many meanings, right? A "marked many" means something else than " the mark of a man", " a man of marks", "mark of the beast", "he gets good marks in school", asf. One could always say "worthy-marks", or something to make it more understandable.

@AnWulf:

I like bīspell >>> maybe write it byspell today. It wouldn't be that much of a stretch, since "gospel" is from O.E. godspel

SAMOD would help to give English a bunch of words back, if it could be brought back in to the mainstream.

samodswēġend "consonant, consonant sound"
samodsprǣċ "colloquy, conversation, conference"
samodwyrcende "cooperating"

SAMOD and SAME have like roots and are akin to each other.

churl = karl, kerl, ċeorl(e), kerel, karel, Polish Król, Hungarian kiraly, Czech kral, Charles, asf.

Rígsþula >> talks about the three sons of Ríg: Þræl, Karl and Jarl. This is a Germanic tale about class rank/standing.

Carlton and Charlton < both mean "the farm of the churls"

churl >> a freeman, under a þegn, but above a thrall. He was still a peasant, though.

Peasant is one Latinate that isn't used very much in the US, in fact, it may have been one of the first politically incorrect terms that is still steered away from. While "sharecropper" may fit within the wordbook meaning of "peasant", we would never call a sharecropper a peasant unless we wanted to be insulting. Peasant has a much darker feel to it in the US ... and just isn't used. Does being unrich make one a "peasant"? I don't think so but I think that in pre-1066 England, it would make you a churl ... and it wasn't insulting as it is now. That's just my guess.

And don't forget that between a churl and a thrall was a theow! Often the brook of thrall and theow seem to overlap.

What can one say about the grammar words. OE had grammaticcræft as well as stæfcræft (grammar).

As for mark ... at times it fits ... but the "mark of the beast" is a bad thing! Being a "marked man" is not a good thing. Getting good marks in school doesn't bestow a trait on a person. We don't say "trait of the beast" nor a "traited man" ... I'll have to try it for a few days and see how I feel about it.

Side mark here ... you like the word "hap" ... It still lives hapless, happy, and perhaps! I guess that makes "perhaps" 1/2 Latinate! lol ... forhaps?

I think I'll go with "thane" in place of a military officer. It think it fits. I just don't thane would be applied broadly like "soldier" is today. A thane would be above the enlisted ranks. Maybe the NCOs (non-commissioned officers - sergeants) would be under-thanes? Or keep the Latinate forefast and call them sub-thanes. So a communications officer could be a "samodsprec thane". That would need a gloss. I don't think that would be forthwith(ly) understood.

"perhaps! I guess that makes "perhaps" 1/2 Latinate! lol ... forhaps?"

Maybe also "byhaps"... L. per >> for, by, through. I can hear folks in the Southern U.S. saying "ferhaps" with a Southern drawl, and the British saying "foh-haps".

"As for mark ... at times it fits ... but the "mark of the beast" is a bad thing! Being a "marked man" is not a good thing. Getting good marks in school doesn't bestow a trait on a person. We don't say "trait of the beast" nor a "traited man" ... "

That is not the point, is it? Look at my byspel, "SOUND". One word, spelled the same in each way, but meaning something else. It is not common either to say "a trait of a pen", although it has that use. There are more than forty (40) different ways and meanings for MARK, which include

* an object or end desired or striven for; goal.
* a distinctive trait or characteristic: "the usual marks of a gentleman".
* distinction or importance; repute; note: "a man of mark"
* a recognized or required standard of quality, accomplishment, etc.; norm: "His dissertation was below the mark".
* a sign, token, or indication: to bow as a mark of respect.
* to be a distinguishing feature of: "a day marked by rain".

Mark is what was said in Old English for "characteristic". I think it fitting.

My 2 Marks. MfG.

OE thēow (cf. OHG dionōn, dionēn, G. diener) and O.E. þræl (from O.N. þræll; cf. Danish træl, Swedish träl; also, "enthrall") are slaves, bondsmen, servants with a Lord. A "churl" was a freeman--the lowest ranked freeman.

There is a big step between these ranks. Here is good writ about this: http://www.regia.org/Saxons1.htm

Cheers!

The reason I dither about brooking "mark" for "trait" is that I don't want to swap a word that a sharp meaning to one that has many meanings. The goal, in my eyes, is to find a word to swap but, samod (ly?), not make things worse. I'd rather either bring in a word from another Germanic tung ... like trekk or trekklet ... or even brook the raw OE word mercung (merkung?) than brook a word like "mark" that already is heavily brooked. Doublets (twofolden, twofoldel, twofoldle, or brook the Fr/Lat afterfast ... let ... twofoldlet?) have been known to happen so having two words from the same root is ok.

I went back to work on a yetheude from English to Saxon and saw that I had brooked "sprecung" for communications ... Since the c has changed to k, that would now be "sprekung" ... sprekung thane for communications officer? Still needs a gloss!

Interesting writ but it didn't moot thralls. What we must recall (edcall?) is that not all Saxons lived the same way with the same laws. My guess is that theow and thrall could have been swapped depending on where and when it was brooked. It seems to me that, from the meanings, that theow (servant ... bonded slave) would have been a bit higher than a thrall (serf, servant, slave) if they were ever brooked at the same time! I'm thinking that I can update theow a bit and use it in place of a gov't official.

I was taken back a bit that the writ spelled kotsetla with a k instead of the OE c ... but then, it is a Latinate otherwise I'd try to fit it the campdom's (military's) frame.

To get your blood heated up ... here is a post "100 Beautiful and Ugly Words" http://www.dailywritingtips.com/100-beautiful-and-ugly-words/

From the post:
Notice how often attractive words present themselves to define other beautiful ones, and note also how many of them are interrelated, and what kind of sensations, impressions, and emotions they have in common. Also, try enunciating beautiful words as if they were ugly, or vice versa. Are their sounds suggestive of their quality, or does their meaning wholly determine their effect on us?

From another post:
Renaissance scholars adopted a liberal attitude to language. They borrowed Latin words through French, or Latin words direct; Greek words through Latin, or Greek words direct. Latin was no longer limited to Church Latin: it embraced all Classical Latin. For a time the whole Latin lexicon became potentially English. ...

Another outcome of the Norman Conquest was to change the writing of English from the clear and easily readable insular hand of Irish origin to the delicate Carolingian script then in use on the Continent. With the change in appearance came a change in spelling. ...

With the restoration of the monarchy in 1660, writers again looked to France. John Dryden admired the Académie Française and greatly deplored that the English had “not so much as a tolerable dictionary, or a grammar; so that our language is in a manner barbarous” as compared with elegant French. ... http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/188048/English-language/74803/Affixation

Since we're starting a new month ... September, what a boring name! and misleading since it means, in Latin, the seventh month ... Time for English to bring back the old names ... there were two for September:

Hálig-mónaþ (Holy Month) or Hærfest-mónaþ (Harvest Month)

Wes þu hal!

Or, we could calque the boring Latin >>> seofoþa-mónaþ

;-)

When I went to skule we called it "the old stone age" "middle stone age" and so on..
Now of course they call it 'Kneolithic" "Mesolithic" "Paleolithic". That's much simpler once you know "meso" as is Mesopotamia means middel and "paleo" means old and "on" of course is NOT the A-saxon meaning..... All so unnecessary...... but if you remember that Hippopotamus is a river-horse then of course mesopotamia is the land between two rivers...... Perhaps the real question is why learn English in the first place if we are all going to speak greek anyway. Teaching Greek first might bring a muchneeded boost to their faltering oikonomia....

Sometimes it seems as if "academic" means using non-English words for no good reason but snobbery; such as "emphasize" for "spotlight"...... It does make teaching English larfabel and the teacher a laughing-stock when all we do is teach greek or latin roots. Much better if we were blithe, lithe, (or lissom) and blithely unaware of "oncology", "ontology" and paleo-whatever-it-is; all this greek stuff pales, palls. LIfe is too short to be snobbish.

It's pretty easy to teach the word ontology; begin with einai (to be) in greek and set out the endings for the gerund or whatever. This may leave you short on time for dealing with English grammar but that's not far-reaching stuff. The other thing is in bringing words over from "classical" languages the roots are often muddled for instance "expose" "exposition" "exposure" ....

May I put forward that we build month names akin to Czech? (see Wikipedia:)
* January -- leden (from led, ice) >>> ICEMONTH
* February -- únor (probably from the word root -nor-, infinitive form nořit (se), to plunge, to welter, as the ice welters under the lake surface) >>> MELTMONTH
* March -- březen (either from bříza, birch, or from březí, with young etc., as the forest animals, mainly hares and rabbits, are pregnant at that time) MATINGMONTH
* April -- duben (derived from dub, oak) ???
* May -- květen (from květ, blossom) >>>>BLOSSOMMONTH
* June -- červen (either from červený, red, or from červ, worm, both related to fruit) FRUITMONTH
* July -- červenec (the same as červen with a comparative (more) component) RIPENINGMONTH
* August -- srpen (from srp, sickle) SICKLEMONTH
* September -- září (lit. "it shines", but most likely from říje (rutting), the time when the - mainly deer - males want to couple) RUTTINGMONTH
* October -- říjen (from říje, see September)
* November -- listopad (literally "leaf-fall") LEAFFALLMONTH
* December -- prosinec (either from prosit to beg, to ask, to plead, but more probably from prase, pig, because hogroasts are common at that time) HOGROASTMONTH

just a few idle thoughts.

@Jayles ... LOL ... You're right. A few fremd words add a "blowing stench" (flavor) ... but when half your tung has fremd roots? I think that so many Latinates are so far from from their roots that a Roman wouldn't know them! Would he look at "flavor" and know what it means from a blend of Latin flatus ‘blowing’ and foetor ‘stench’ ... and that it means "taste"? Unlikely! ... But then they had a word for taste "gustus" the root of gusto! That's worse than going to Germany and hearing "handy" and it's a cellphone ... at least that does make some sense. But then cell+phone (storeroom-sound?) ... a Lat-Gr half-bred ... It can make one crazy!

At least most of the Greek roots are still known again (recognizable) by Greeks tho maybe not for how it is being brooked from the root:
amber ήλεκτρο
electron ηλεκτρόνιο
electricity ηλεκτρικής ενέργειας (energy)

But what happened to all the Saxon words for things like the broad meaning of "art" or the narrow meaning of "clitoris" or "estrus"? Sometimes while digging thru ... I find a jest (jewel) or two. You have to love "lustgryn" ... which would be spelled "lustgrin" today ... Then if you dig and find that grin has two roots ... one which means "snare, trap" ... and thus lustgrin is the "snare of pleasure"! Gee ... I wonder what the scop (poet) was thinking about.

I'v made a list of words that are still here ... hidden down deep in the wordbook ... that I will post to my blog later. A few like scop and rekels (incense, from OE recels) could use a spelling change (resting on how you say it ... either skop or shope ... I like skop ... Rekels is said like reekels and that would also show its roots ... reek).

I'm alreddy too long here. But as to your rimbook or rimebook (calendar) names for the months, what if you live in the southern halfworld? Then they would be backwards! I guess we'll either have to find more obscure names or just use numbers ... I vote we use Greek numbers this time around! lol

@jayes >>> remember Chaucer's "evil concupiscence"? I found the Old English for that..."yfel lustgeornnes". FYI.

Angelfolc: so "geornnes" means "earnest" or horniness??

"The neolithic revolution had important consequences" >>
"The new stone age upheaval had far-reaching follow-ons" (or "flow-ons")
???

@jayles:

yfelgeornnes >> evil, wickedness

wífgeornness >> incontinence

O.E. ġeorn (*gernaz; cf. OHG gerno, Ger. gern) > eager for, desirous of something; anxious, ardent, zealous, studious, intent, careful, diligent, importunate.

Truly, O.E. ġeorn >> Eng. yearn. So, in today's English, it would be "evil yearnings".

Aengelfolc: "incontinence" in modern usage usually refers to the inability to control one's urinary/bladder function, most often found amongst the elderly. You can get nappies for it.
"Evil lust-yearnings" I still remember from my youth.....

@jayles: "incontinence"

I know...but this is what the Anglo-Saxons called it.

Aengelfolc: the word "empirical" came up again and I was wondering what the connection with "empire" was..... of course there is none. We could calque German with "experience-based" (which would be more consistent) but still not "real" English. And then there's "empiricism"...
BTW earlier you put forward "angewandt" for practical: it seems to me this really means "applied" in modern English. In which of the following could one use "angewandt" without changing the meaning, please??? I think only D or E. ???

(A) sie hat einen praktischen Verstand she's practically minded
(B) praktischer Arzt general practitioner
(C) praktisches Jahr practical year
(D) praktische Ausbildung practical or in-job training
(E) praktisches Beispiel concrete example

"inherently" .... well of course this means "per se" or "by its very nature"... but in "real" English just "of itself" is hardly enough; so what could we use instead of "nature" to make the true meaning clearer? ... "by its very ilk" ????

Anwulf: You are right about being downunder; the peach-blossom is out right now but we could hardly call it "harvest month", so "the ninth month" would do fine. And February??
"Expressing the idea of second ...... there wasn’t a word that could easily be adapted. Old English fell back on other, ...... . " (C) Michael Quinion So are we doomed to use "second" faute de mieux???

@jayles:

ANGEWANDT can be translated as functional, applied, deployed, to make use of, practical (sense of useful "nuetzlich", at least according to the wordbooks) >> Adj. ạn·ge·wandt >> "auf die praktische Anwendung gerichtet"

Practicality can be said as "praktische Anwendbarkeit"

There are many combinations with lust ... I found lustgrin (lustgryn) and it's translation funny. OE also has gâl ... cognate of Ger. geil ... and has many words with it as well. We may have a doublets from it: goal and gole. It lived into ME as gole (that still can be found in the wordbook but not with the same meaning) BTW, if you see â or ā then it's probably close to the German "ei" and late the long o in English ... hâm = heim = home.

I'v been thinking about second ... English has used the dative form of words to make new words from twegen we get: gen. twéga, twégea, tweágea, twíga, twégera, twégra (later Gospels have tweigre, tweire); dat. twám, twǽm. ... That's real close to twain. Anyway ... none of these are being used so pick one for second.

"The new stone age upheaval had far-reaching outcomes."

Empirical ... hmmmm ... The "eyewitnessed" evidence?

The word I was thinking about earlier today was "future" ... the OE word ... forthschaft ... just doen't seem to tell me anything! Becoming would be the calque of future but that is alreddy taken and has a different meaning. Maybe forthcoming or just forthcome. What does the forthcome hold?

It's late and I'm tired ...

All about þorn http://evertype.com/blog/thorn/
Reclaiming þorn http://nwhyte.livejournal.com/1200271.html
Related ... Þe return of þorn: http://alexpeak.com/ww/2008/015.html
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/pages/Þ-Þorn-or-the-letter-thorn/25364689783?sk=wall

forthschaft >> forthship 'shaping forward, onward"; state of what's to come (cf. worship, lit. 'shaping worth'; state of being worthy). SCHAFT = SHIP

What is in the forthship of English? What is in English's foreship?

Empirical Evidence >> Firsthand Betokenings?

lustgryn >> pleasure trap, orgy (Ger. "Fallstrick der Lust")

"inherently" >> by and of itself

How do you mean "inherently"? Innately? Fundamentally? Basically? Implicitly?

"What will come of English?" "What is to come of English?" "the now", "the coming days" and so on
"Firsthand Betokenings" sounds good, although empiricism doesn't necessarily mean one has to experience everything firsthand oneself.
"All about porn" ??? it's easily misread!

Finally taught the word "agnostic" and made the link with "know" by changing g>>K
But really can we equate "agnostic" with 'unbeliever' and
"atheist" with 'disbeliever' .... or is that just too non-specific??

"How do you mean "inherently"?' context was domestication of horse: tame vs domesticated. "by and of itself" is quite good enough for most contexts. At the time I was thinking what is the connection with "adhere" ... sticking (which makes it no clearer)

Teacher: ... so "a" as a prefix usually means "on" as in "atop" "asleep";
but it the word is Greek it means "without" as in 'agnostic', 'atheist'.
Student: What is Greek???
.. (much explanation later) ...
Student: So "atheist" is someone like me who doesn't use "the"??

Empiricism is a theory of knowledge that asserts that knowledge comes only or primarily via sensory experience.

Firsthand >> could mean I experienced it or you experienced it or they experienced it...the knowledge is derived first hand, not necessarily by oneself. Right?

adhere > English "cling to, stick to"; "to follow [rules, principles]", "cleave to", "be true to", "fulfill", "heed", "keep", "mind"

inherent > English "inbred", "built in", "inborn", "deep rooted"

Smash them together >> adherent (Latin adhaerent --> ad "to" + haerēre "to stick" + -ent) = "to stick to a [leader]"; Englsih " a follower"

Mir fehlt der Fleiss beim Biertrinken... Ich dachte dass es ungefaehr eine alte griechische Anwendungssache (oder sowas) sei.
To be Frank, I just have to teach the difference between empirical and theoretical for students who will go on to university... otherwise I wouldn't bother:
"Hi how are you?"
"Feeling rather empirical today!"

atheist = unbeliever, godless, heathen

agnostic (coined by the English biologist T.H. Huxley, c.1869) = unknowable (philosophy the Unknowable the ultimate reality that underlies all phenomena but cannot be known

empirical >> I saw this work, I made this work, I felt this work, and I know this works because I have tried it.

theoretical >> I guess this works, I think this works, but I don't really know because I haven't tried it.

Ængelfolc: Firsthand >> could mean I experienced it or you experienced it or they experienced it...the knowledge is derived first hand, not necessarily by oneself. Right?

'the town of Maryport was firsthandly (originally) known has Ellenfoot' ?

there is: firsthand, freehand, beforehand, longhand, thirdhand, underhand, etc

'out of hand' (I think) I can kinda understand why it is not 'outahand' but why is it written 'glad hand' rather than 'gladhand' ?

there is 'shorthand' and 'longhand' wonder if something like: 'cunhand' could make a good stand-in for anything?

...the flyers were written in nowt but cunhand (cunning + hand) to trick householders out of their money

or

...always read the cunhand (small print) ?

*henchman*

'America and its henchland the UK'

'henchland' - lackey/ axis state/ sattelite state/ allied state ?

'downhench'/'walhench'/'outhench' - something like: acting boldly in the interests other states?

'selfhench'/'freehench' - something like: to act boldly in ones own interests first rather than downhenching?

'hench' means 'well built' in slang, so forthwith 'beef up' is done and dusted for me. From now on it's 'hench up'

might even start wielding 'hench' as the name for 'beef'

- beefeaters get their name from the great big slabs of hench they are gotten fed by their overlords...

Anyway...

'for the next game we need to hench up our backrow or we art done for'

@Jayles ... LOL ... I liked the one about atheist ... a person who doesn't use "the"! Maybe we could say that an agnostic is an "unknower". It's not that he doesn't say there is know no god ... just that he doesn't know. An atheist, is one who says there is no god ... an unbeliever.

And yes, it is easy to "blend up" þorn and porn! Maybe ðat riser needs a hat on it! lol Ðe upper Þ looks even more like P ðan þ and p ... but ðen Ð and ð look like D and d. I þink ðat's more of a font þing þo. A good font could make ðat better. Anyway, ðe Icelanders seem get along ok with them! And I read enuff old texts ðat I'm good wiþ ðem as well.

@Ængelfolc ... That's "my bad" ... I should have written "forthshaft" not schaft ... tho it may be cognate here! But OE has "ship" ... "scip" so if they had meant "forthship" then they would have used "scip". I was thinking the shaft of a spear ...

The word was "forðgesceaft" ... even then it was skopic (poetic). So the skop (scop) was skopicly saying the shaft goes forth meaning the future. I'll see if I can find some examples and see how it works.

@Stanmund ... I don't know why you brought up "henchman". While I understood your meaning of henchland it's not needed since vassal is not a Latinate. The root of the word is Celtic.

For that matter, you can swap henchman right in. At it roots, hench means horse. The henchman was the man who held the horse for the lord ... a vassal. Truly you could use henchman since it is a noun (as is vassal). America's henchman, the UK, ... = America's vassal, the UK, ...

I didn't understand your other brooks. That may be owing to your brook of UK slang for hench ... Maybe Jayles understood it but I didn't it. I would rede that you shouldn't use near-by slang to make new words.

Selfhench would mean that you hold the horse yourself not that you behave boldly.

Freehench would be non-tied horse ... like a freeman.

Downhench? You're either getting off the horse or you're making the horse lie down.

Walhench? ... What does the forefast wal(l) mean here?

Outhench? Out-horse? You have more horses? Or the horse stays outside ... where it should stay.

Hench up? = Horse up ... Good if you like horse meat! lol Or if you want to get the horse up after you downhenched it.

It sounds a lot like "hitch up" ...

A common word here is bulk ... bulk up.

If you don't like the word beef, then the word is cow, not horse. I guess you could use the OE spelling of "cu".

Oh, it's not "we art" ... Art goes with thou. We, ye, they ... are.

O.E. ġesceaft > destiny; something done; something made; a creature; a creation. (cf. German geschafft "managed, done, executed, pulled off, worked").

German ending -schaft is cognate with Dutch -schap, Swesish -skap, English ending -ship >>>>>>>>> O.E.ending -sciepe (PGmc. *-skapjaz "state of being, condition, position, rank", cf. O.N. -skapr, OHG -scaf, OSax -skepi.

O.E. sceaft (PGmc.*skaftaz) is another word altogether. cf. der Schaft (w/ capital letter), Dutch schacht.

Oh, also look at:

O.E. (verb) scieppan (PGmc *skapjanan) >> "to shape, mould, form, create, make"; cf. Gothic gaskapjan, German schaffen, O.Fris. skeppa, O.N. skapa. It is in today's English the word "shape" (O.E. ġesceap)

MfG

O.E. forðgesceaft = "forward destiny"

shaft and geshaft both seem to have a root meaning of life (shaft also means shaft as in a staff).

sceaft (æ, e) m. staff, pole, 'shaft,' Met, WW: spear-shaft, spear, Æ; CP.
±sceaft fn., nap. -tu, -ta, -te created being, creature, Æ, CP: creation,
construction, existence, Æ, CP: (+) dispensation, destiny, fate, CP: (+)
condition, nature. [scieppan]

So a forþsceaft (forðsceaft) would be life brought forth ... life created ... Frankenstein's monster would be a forthshaft!

geshaft

ealdorgesceaft f. state of life
eorðgesceaft f. earthly creature
forðgesceaft ¶ f. creature, created being or thing, world: future destiny. (skoplic)
handgesceaft f. handiwork
hêahgesceaft f. noble creature
hygesceaft f. mind, heart
landgesceaft f. earthly creature
lîfgesceaft ¶ f. life's conditions or record. (skoplic)
mǣlgesceaft f. fate ... liken to hêahgesceap n. fate ... gêosceaft f. destiny, fate ... metod ¶ m. fate: Creator, God, Christ.
wætergesceaft f. nature of water
woruldgesceaft ¶ f. creature of this world: world (skoplic) ...
woruldsceaft ¶ f. earthly creature.

shaft

edsceaft f. new creation, regeneration ed is a forefast = re
fêasceaft ¶ destitute, miserable, helpless, poor.
fêasceaftig destitute, poor
frumsceaft f. first creation, origin, primeval condition, B: creature: home.
['frumschaft']
gêosceaft f. destiny, fate
gêosceaftgâst m. doomed spirit
metod ¶ m. fate: Creator, God, Christ.
metodsceaft ¶ f. decree of fate, doom, death
afulsceaft f. navel
selfsceafte not begotten
wansceaft ¶ f. misery, misfortune.

German has a much clearer noun for the verb to come ... Kunft ... thus Zukunft is the "to(ward)coming" ... forthcoming is the near future ... maybe forthbecoming or forthgecoming for the the future in general?

There is "tôweardnes f. future, time to come." ... and the adverb "tôweardlic in the future".

I don't know how I feel about towardness ... makes sense but sounds awkward.

The towardness of mankind ...
The forthbecoming of mankind ...
The forthgecoming of mankind ...

Just brook zukunft! lol ... The zukunft of mankind!

With towardness, I guess the frain would be ... Do we move toward towardness or does the towardness move towards us? Or we could move forward to the towardness.

It's not working for me. I see why future was brought into the tung! The Saxons weren't too bothered by what was beyond the forthcoming days ... anything far off onefoldly wasn't thought about.

@AnWulf...has u have shown, 'henchman' already works. Haven't the foggiest why I ran with 'henchland' It's ditched.

Would of liked better the Celtic 'vassal' to be spelt 'wassal' but nevermind.

'walhench' was meant as in: 'to hench for outsiders' - 'walh' (foreigner) It's ditched.

'outhench' same as above: (out sourcing) It's ditched.

Feel like sticking with 'hench up' for (beef up) and maybe even 'hench' for (beef) at least until something better comes along. Both work well enough in rightly meaning in my books. 'hench' is already out there on the streets doing a good'un wearing away at Latinates like: 'muscular' and 'imposing' so whilst it's at it, why not stick a word like 'beef' on its hitlist. It might sound full blast (extreme) but if it takes a bit of slang to grind down and away the usage of an oft Latinate like 'beef' sobeit.

On further thoughts, rather than 'cunhand' the word 'smallhand' for (small print) would fit better with the stuff out there already: shorthand, longhand and SMALL print. 'Always read the smallhand'

Maybe 'cunhand' could still overset some other Latinate out there.

'what will be the morrow(s) of mankind'

Reckon almost all English speakers would here understand 'morrow' to mean 'future' Love how poetic licence is oft a good friend to the undertaking of Anglishing English.

'things will be better in the morrow'

Drift is still there but weakened

'in the morrow please take care'

?

'morrow' mighten be an head-on word for 'future' in old English but I am still up for using it over 'future' (when it allows)

little greenmen from a foremorrowlike world

Looked up "flattery" only to rediscover it's frankish..... so hard to remember these french-looking frankish words....

@Jayles ... Yea, sometimes I'm taken aback but which words are Latinates and which have Germanic roots ... huru those Frankish words that worked their way thru French. Then sometimes words that look like they should be Germanic turn out to be a Latinate owing to the Franks were truly good at "germanizing" Latin words so by the time they came to us ... they had alreddy been thru the wringer once.

@Stanmund ... It can be brooked to hint at "future" as in:

We don't know what the morrow may bring. (We don't know what the future or morning may bring ... We don't know what will happen in the future.)

However, it also has other brooks. We expect them to arrive on the morrow. (tomorrow, the next day)

It does still mean "the next day" and can be used in the past ... On the morrow, they attacked the city. (On the next day, they attacked the city.)

“Good-night, good-night! parting is such sweet sorrow / That I shall say good-night till it be morrow.” Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet (tomorrow)

“Many good morrows to my noble lord!” Shakespeare, Richard III (mornings)

It has the same problem as "forthcoming" ... It has the meaning of the near-future. You can't truly say, "In the morrow, we'll have ships travelling between the stars." ... Unless you mean tomorrow. Maybe make it a plural? In the morrows?

I'm coming full-ring with forthcoming ... cut it to forthcome ... "In the forthcome, we'll have ships travelling between the stars."

Tocome would match German Zukunft. "In the tocome, we'll have ships travelling between the stars." I think forthcome is a little better tho.

There are other OE words that mean future as well. Forthshaft was a little better than the others.

As for the word print as in a verb ... That will take some thought as both print and press are Latinates that have been thru the Frankish wringer. Likely, the one that leaps out the most is þyccan ... thrueckan ... cognate with Ger. drücken. There is also þringen ... thringen. And there are others that could be "pressed" into brook.

For small print. Brook staf or staff for letter (OE stæf) and say the smallstaf.

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)

Thring \Thring\, v. t. & i. [imp. Throng.] [AS. þringan.
See Throng.]
To press, crowd, or throng. [Obs.] --Chaucer.

Had not the inkling that the roots of 'empty' is English! Always snubbed it as being from Fr complet.

Got a full blast loathing for the influence of French on English, not even that keen on any Frankish by dint of French. I wonder how many so-called French Frankish words in English in fact found their way into English from the local Flemish and the following Anglo-Saxon settlers in 'French' Flanders. The whole of Nord pas de Calais and the strip of Picardy north of the Somme waterway, has always historically been so much longer Dutch and even English speaking than French. English folk don't know that the nearest bits of France have been speaking Dutch for way longer than French.

'French' Flanders, English Flanders, Elsass -Lotheringen, Brittany, Savoy, Nizza area, even bits of Monaco, Corsica, 'French' Catalanya, 'French' Basqueland, a lot of the rim of France is either recently annexed land or not truly Frenchified until after WW2.

French even made a grab to annex Saarland up until 1980s! Not forgetting the Frenchification of little old Andorra and the Frenchification of Dutch and German lands in Belgium and likewise German lands in Switzerland and Luxemburg. Sigh.

BTW, I forgot to say that the word "press" does appear in OE for clothes as in a clothes-press. Most likely a pre-1066 Latinate tho there is no background given for it so it is unknown. Soooo ... under the 'Anglish-rules' that pre-1066 Latinates can be kept ... press can be kept and I would stretch to words from it like pressure. But if ye truly want, we can 'press' forward to digging out another OE word.

@Stanmund ... I can only rede forbearance. You cannot change (Celtic root) the tung overnight. Take small steps where you can. It has taken me days to edwrite a slice (Germanic root [GR]) in mostly Anglish of tale that I'm writing. Truth is that is sounds like something from Middle English! It's understandable but sounds "old". It has been nearly 1,000 year since the Occupation began and it will take a long time to undo what has been done ... if it can be done!

Along that line, last night I was playing around with words to swap for campdom ... maybe kampdom (military) ranks (GR). I found sundry that could be brooked. I think I will brook them in a sci-fi tale that I have on the back-burner. I'v been needing a way to rank the off-world campdom. I should have written them down because now I'll have to go back thru and find them again! lol ... So the offworlder infaru-fleet (alien invasion fleet) will be using OE and other Germanic words for their ranks.

Here's another word that needs to be edquickened: OE nytt ... use, utility, advantage

OE nytt, y = ü, ue; often lives to nowadays English as ī as in fire (OE fyr) but not always. Besides, there is alreddy night. Can't use use just a 'u' since that could be in-blended (confused) with nut.

nuett or use an umlaut nütt .
nuttlic useful (German nützlich)
fornuettlic, fornüttlic ... very useful from OE fornyttlic

O.E. þryccan (< PGmc.*þrukjanan "crowd, press") >> latter-day English thrutch -- 1. "to push, press; to crowd, throng; squeeze; to trouble, oppress; to thrust; to wriggle between to surfaces 2. (Northern English) a narrow, fast-moving stream

@AnWulf

Ever heard of Kibbo Kift? seems highly likely that this olden movement (into its Saxon stuff) might of kept their own log of English wordbooks. Wondering if any Anglishers have ever bothered giving them a sniff over...

/office-holders such as the Tallykeeper, Campswarden, Ritesmaster and Gleeman/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kibbo_Kift

'thrutch' seems to give off a more 'pressilike' feeling than 'thring'

mabe 'thrutch' straightforwardly for 'press' / 'print' (?) and 'smallhand' for 'small print' as it follows fittingly 'shorthand' and 'longhand' and has it stands, already slips off the tung eathly: 'always read the smallhand'

'blurb' and 'bumf' are not fully the same in meaning as 'small print'

"shaft and geshaft both seem to have a root meaning of life"

Yes, if the word 'shaft' (sceaft) is taken from O.E. scieppan. The ending "-ship" < "-sceaft" < "=sciep(e)" < P.Gmc *-skapaz < "scieppan" < P.Gmc *skapjanan. cf. shape (P.Gmc *skapan) is from this root.

O.E. ġesceaft < P.Gmc *ga- (pp prefix) "whole, finished deed" + P.Gmc *skapjana(n) (verb) "to make, shape, create + P.Gmc *-þiz (ending to make strong abstract nouns & verbs; latter-day English -th); same root as above.

O.E. sceaft (P.Gmc. *skafta-, *skaftaz "to scrape, shave; to dig"; cf. OHG skaft), meaning "a long slender cylindrical body or part; a rod-like thing"; seamingly not akin to O.E. scafan (P.Gmc *skabanan) "to shave" or O.E. sceafa (P.Gmc *skabô) "shaving tool". It seems the root is altogether something not akin to O.E. scieppan.

I have not yet found a steadfast link between the two seemingly the same words. If you have some telling book or website, I'd be beholden to you. Danke im Voraus!

*Forþgesceaft

I. the created things, creation, world, "Fyrn forþgesceaft Fæder ealle bewát" (the Father guards all the ancient creation)

II. the future world, state, or condition, "He ða forþgesceaft forgyteþ and forgýmeþ" (he forgets and neglects the future)

There are more Frankish words in English and in French (especially Norman-French) than academics (Francophiles in particular) care to admit. They are hard to find, since French speech and spelling is so...shall we say..."special"?

Take the French word échanson "grand, royal butler"

I have not found "press" before 1066, or in O.E. before. Where can I find that? To my knowledge "press" is from about the 13th century; meaning "printing press" is from about the 16th c.; meaning "pressing clothes, grapes, asf" is from about the end of the 1300's.

BTW...I think Latin/French/Celtic words that were in English before 1066 A.D. are fine, too, unless an O.E. word was needlessly put out of the wordstock.

My 2 Marks

Wine Press >> O.E. wīntredd(e)

Oil Press >> O.E. æl(e)tredd(e)

Did any Frankish, Dutch and 'Calais English' wordstuff come into English out of the Pale of Calais (English Flanders) and 'French' Flanders?

That chunk of far northern France has been longer Dutch and maybe even English speaking than French speaking amongst the everyday folk.

http://books.google.com/books?id=H7VcdGI20FkC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Language+contact+at+the+Romance-Germanic+language+border++By+Roland+Willemyns&hl=en&ei=XSNtTunAHo6q8APv4tQS&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Language%20contact%20at%20the%20Romance-Germanic%20language%20border%20%20By%20Roland%20Willemyns&f=false

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale_of_Calais

Shaftment (c.910 A.D.) >> "the distance from the tip of the outstretched thumb to the opposite side of the palm of the hand = 1/2 foot or 6 inches (15.24 centimeters)" >> O.E. sceaftmund (P.Gmc *skaftaz "shaft" + P.Gmc *mundō "hand, protection, sceurity, guaridianship"; same P.I.E. root, whence L. manus (Fr. main, Sp./ It. mano, Port. mão).

This word is a good showing of how Latin-French in-flow has warped English. Looking at this word, most would say that this is a Teutonic/Latin blend because of the -ment ending.

English spelling should be fixed, then maybe the roots of English would be better seen.

@Stanmund:

http://books.google.com/books?id=yIthoIVk1lgC&pg=PA9&dq=language+of+Pale+of+Calais&hl=en&ei=fSptTsv4JY-atwfZvNjUBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=language%20of%20Pale%20of%20Calais&f=false

Ængelfolc wrote:

September 11, 2011, 1:39pm

Wine Press >> O.E. wīntredd(e)

Oil Press >> O.E. æl(e)tredd(e)

tredd(e)

I guess it's unkindred but minds me of the unoft (uncommon) English suffix -red as in 'hatred' - hate ruled(?)

Could the -red suffix still make a handy suffix in some way

@Ængelfolc

Thanks for that, so far, seems a good read, bookmarked it.