Cool thing about "coach":

English coach is from M.Fr. coche. The French got it from German Kotsche, Kutsche, and the Germans borrowed it from Hungarian kocsi (kosci szekér, "cart from Kocs"). Kocs is a village in Komárom-Esztergom, Hungary, where coaches were first made.

Saber follows the same Magyar-> German -> French path to English. I vote we keep these borrowed words in English. ;-)

Cool thing about "coach":

English coach is from M.Fr. coche. The French got it from German kotsche, Kutsche, and the Germans borrowed it from Hungarian kocsi (kosci szekér, "cart from Kocs"). Kocs is a village in Komárom-Esztergom, Hungary, where coaches were first made.

Saber follows the same Magyar-> German -> French path to English. I vote we keep these borrowed words in English. ;-)

Another striking thing in this book is the list of borrow-rates from highest to lowest.

Tongue with the highest? Selice Romani (with just over 84% coming from Hungarian). The lowest? Mandarin Chinese.

Old High German, to my shock, was the second lowest! Indeed, the only true Celtic loanword in Old High German is Old Irish 'brunna' (armor)-cf. the Germanic name Brunhild(a). Old French gave only one: kussin ("pillow", cf. Ger. Kissen) and Italian, also one: zuckar ("sugar", cf. Ger. Zucker). The rest of the loanwords in Old High German are Latin from the Romans.

English was ranked fifth (when reckoning the Scandinavian (markedly Old Danish), German, Dutch/Frisian, Frankish, Gothic and other Germanic tongues that had bearing on English as loanwords).

Sadly, while the book does talk about the "back borrowing" through Norman-French, the writers seem to not have taken those words out of the French pool. If they would have done so, French (Vulgar-Gaulish-Latin) might only be at about 20%, not 25% of English loanwords.

Also the top five categories for borrowing:

1. Religion/Beliefs
2. Grooming/Fashion
3. House and Home
4. Law
5. Political and Social

One can see why French and Latin are greatly borrowed into every tongue, not just English. Anyway, Ænglisc is still very much a Germanic tongue in all ways, and rightfully so.

Funny enough, English uses loanwords to make Germanic-style compound words like 'television', telephone, motorcycle, asf. Another showing of the Germanicness of English.

The book put forth that speakers of British English are more laid-back about borrowings in English. Why? The writer notes students of British schools are not usually taught the history of English (it's rare he writes), so they take for granted that every word spoken is English. I have written it before: academia is the problem to overcome.

Hopefully, this will give more insight into the Ænglisc debate.

Thought-stirring:

I am reading a good book about loanwords in tongues across the World (written in 2009), and it marks where English is weakest: Social & Political, Law, and Modern World words. Also, 40% of words about sickness/illness and the inner organs are loanwords. The other 60% are Germanic (or 'native').

As for English overall, English is still about 2/3 Germanic (Anglo-Saxon, Scandinavian, Dutch/Frisian, Frankish, asf.) even with all of the borrowing from French (25%), Latin (8%) and, to my shock, Greek (1.6%). Celtic, of any kind, makes up only .032% of English words.

Germanic far outweighs any other tongue when looking at the first 5000 words (upwards of 54% in any group inbetween). Between 5001 and 6000, though, English (Germanic) only makes up about 34% of those words.

All pronouns, conjunctions, and modal auxiliaries commonly used in English are Germanic.

Food for thought. More later...Cheers!

@jayles:

You are right--"doing" is a great teacher! LOL

Now about The Great War (and some of its roots):

* The Treaty Alliance System--'War Decl." Au.Hun -> Serbia; Russia -> Au.Hun; Germany -> Russia; France -> Germany; Britain (along with Canada, Australia, New Zealand, India, South Africa) -> Germany; U.S. -> Germany; Japan -> Germany; Italy -> Germany & Au.Hun. (government)

* Austro-Hungarians wanted to crush the nationalist movement so that it would gain strong sway over the Balkans, undo Serbia's sovereignty, and to uphold the two-Monarchy rule. (government)

* Black Hand murdered Archduke Franz-Ferdinand (political group interests, maybe government)

* Imperialistic Foreign Policies by all of the great European governments (government)

* Fighting about Land (government)

* Economics (government)

And so forth. It's a lovely thought that you have, but, again, highly unlikely that more centralized, sterile government means more peace, security, and prosperity for all.

Folks need, and have a right to be, and be free.

Good back and forth, jayles! Alles Gute!

I meant to write, "Whether a loanword (lehnwort) is Anglified, or not, has to do with how it feels and flows when it is uttered in English."

One more thing:

When a loan-word is borrowed into English, if it can be Anglified word for word, it is:

Will to Power (an Nietzschean word in German is der Wille zur Macht).

World War (from German "Weltkrieg")

Loanword (from German "Lehnwort")

Power Politics (from German "Machtpolitik")

Super Ego (from German "über-Ich")

Rain Forest (from German "Regenwald")

Homesickness (from German "Heimweh")

The list could go on forever. But, it cannot be always done word for word to get the best meaning:

Übermensch (another Nietzschean thought, is fought about in English. Some like "Overman" and some like "Superman". And, there is even "Beyond Human". Funnily, "super" is not even English...it's Latin.)

The thing is, "über" is a word with many meanings which hangs on the framework in which it is said and how it feels and flows when it is uttered.

An extra Mark, sorry....

I think that GLEE and GLOAT(ing) are great.

glee (M.E. glien, gleen, O.E. gléo, glēo and cognate to O.Norse glȳ, gljā, from a P.Gmc. *gliuujan. The word is not found in other Germanic tongues.

gloat (from O.N. glotta. Cf. MHG & German Glotzen)

"Schadenfreude" is a Nietzschean word that was rightly borrowed, since it is a thought that was shaped outside of English. Think about "church", "priest" and so forth. Christian terms (which are mostly, if not all Latin) belong in English don't they?

My 2 Marks...again.

@jayles:

"So German words are acceptable but 'unakzeptabel" is not, Oder?" Nein, auf keinen Fall! http://www.vds-ev.de/

Other better words to say: (nicht oder un) annehmbar or untragbar. German does not need the Latin-French word at all. It is a great show of uncalled for wanton borrowing.

The word "Western" is not always understood to mean direction. The Western World is considered to be lands where Indo-European tongues are spoken and European folkways are mainly undertaken. The West (or Western World) is well-known as the well-spring of technology and modernity. The folks in Hong Kong (and most everywhere else) know and understand this, too.

The break-up of South Slavia was a many sided thing. Government owned a big share of the blame. So, the way I see it, it's not likely that "Big Brother" of any kind, is the answer.

Asking a Japanese diplomat why the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor was diplomatic training??

Gruß...

@wlyan138:

Die Schadenfreude is not foreign in the same way that Romance, Asian, Arabic, and Greek words are. Yes, the word is from German, but German is kin to English. German and English are "sisters". The both come from Proto-German and are of the West Germanic bough. English truthfully is a blend of many Germanic tongues: Old Saxon, Old Frankish, Old Norse (Danish), Old Dutch, Anglo-Frisian, asf. It is all guess-work, but in all likelihood, nonetheless true. I mean know one knows all of the Germanic folks that sooner or later became the "Anglo-Saxons". Indeed, you know that.

To show kinship:

Schaden (from P.Gmc. *skath-) = Scathe (v.) which in English, came from O.N. skaða. "Scathe" said in German is either 'die Beleidigung' or 'der Schaden'.

Freude (from P.Gmc. *frawa-) = In English "frith" (friþu, friþ) and "frolic" (cf. Ger. fröhlich).

Now, yes, English would need to put English words in the stead of the German ones :

Schaden => scathe, hurt, harm, Freude => mirth, glee, gladness, happiness

So, "scathe-frith" is the English word. Why not just say "sadistic", "gloat(ing), or the English "Roman Holiday"? Friedrich Nietzsche thought up this idea in 1895, and it shortly made it into most tongues. The word is understood by its bits in Germany, but only if it is learned in English. So what? It seems to be a rightful borrowing that was gladly taken into English. For me, it is in the same group of borrowings as 'sushi', 'sauerkraut', 'street', 'pistol', asf. The thought (or folkway) arose outside of English. In this way, to me, it belongs in English.

My 2 Marks. ;-) Cheers!