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Ængelfolc
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February 28, 2011
Total number of comments
675
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“Anglish”
- March 15, 2011, 3:49pm
@Stanmund: I am not so sure that there is anything wrong with "comeuppance". I think there is a major problem with the unnecessary borrowing of words that are used in place of true English words. Words like this, however, deserve to be handled differently.
The suffix "-ance" is from L. -antia and -entia (-ance, -ence). It is a muddled suffix with muddled usage. Basically, this suffix is attached to verbs, and is used to form abstract nouns of process. act, state, or quality.
"Comeuppance", according to the Merriam-Webster wordbook, define the word thusly: a deserved rebuke or penalty.
If pressed to drop the suffix, I guess one could say, "one day soon, you'll have your coming up!" or "the bad guys finally got their comeupness", or something like that. But why try to change a 152 year old relatively modern word?
I'd argue that this word belongs in the category of Anglo-Latin/Norman Hybrid. It is an outgrowth from the combination of Ænglisc and Normaund (Latin/Norse-French).The word itself was not borrowed, it was created. Only the suffix was borrowed. So, the word is still a Germanic word with a little Latin flavor. If still put off, why not simply say, "you'll get yours" or "you will have a reckoning/ to reckon for your misdeeds"?
If English is to go back to its roots, one has to be mindful when choosing words. For example, instead of using "holy spirit", choose "holy ghost". Describe someone as "lively" instead of "vivacious". If you think someone is "brilliant", call them "bright", "brainy", "gifted", "quick-witted", "whiz kid", "smart", "clever", "keen", "crafty", "wise" or "knowing" (but not knowledgeable...-able is from L.-ibilis, -abilis).
Folks have to relearn (L."re" + O.E. leornian, which is from P.Gmc. *liznojan) the English words that replace the Latin-French and Greek ones they are comfortable using. Once folks begin speaking more Germanic English and the foreign words are diminished in the culture, then new "Germanic rooted" words will naturally emerge.
“Anglish”
- March 13, 2011, 12:36am
Analysis is probably not the best example to support your point, Stanmund, although I get your meaning. Many languages unfortunately use "analysis" (or a derivation thereof), too. Some foreign words have become commonly useful in the modern age.
Although, look at good old Icelandic. They made up their very own word for this concept instead of adopting the Greek word: greining (from the verb 'greina'). Ex. stærðfræðigreining (mathematical analysis). They have their own word for mathematics, too: stærð (quantity, size) + -fræði (study of-; -ology) = loosely, 'the study of quantities'. Ingeniuous! Ænglisc, given the same quiet development as Icelandic, I'm sure would also have a native catch-all word for 'analysis'.
Analysis (from PIE base *ano- via Gk. 'ana') + lysis (from PIE *leu- through Gk. 'lyein'). "Breakdown" is a perfectly good synonym, means the same thing, and is just as clear as "Analysis" in all contexts.
Forming an agent noun would not be difficult at all as suggested, but it would probably have to be contextually specific. Ex. "Stock Analyst" => "Stock Watcher". We already have agent nouns with certain professions i.e. "psychiatrist" => 'shrink' or 'head-shrinker'; "accountant" => 'bookkeeper'. Instead of saying 'metal chemical test analyst', we call that person an 'assayer'. It would be nice to call a "doctor or physician" a "healer" instead. It is much more specific and comforting, since it describes what this person is actually supposed to do.
The same breakdown could be done with "synthesis". One could simply choose to say in English, "bring together, blend, weld(-ing), shape(-ing)", brew(-ing), make(-ing) one, mishmash(-ing), a.s.f., depending on the situation. Another example: "combine" => Eng. twin, match (up), mate, yoke, wed, etc. Native speakers, of course, choose words this way quite often. The English words are there for the choosing. Old English words could be revived through the education system.
jayles is right, though, about the way academia teaches non-native speakers. They teach them the Latin and Greek words, especially regarding science, because they are considered higher register words and have been spread World-wide in their use. The academics have convinced non-native speakers that they are speaking English, so it will be nigh impossible to abruptly change the academic, financial, legal, and political lexicons. And, I am not sure that messing with all of them is such a good idea. That said, time and being steadfast of purpose are required to make this type of monumental change.
The general notion of the so-called "educated" that English words are low-brow, unsophisticated, and vulgar sadly still persists today like it did from 1066 onward.
I have to get in at least one false Latin-French word that's really Germanic!
spy (from Frankish *spehon; ultimately from P.Gmc. *spekh-)
More later...
“Anglish”
- March 9, 2011, 7:01pm
Hi, Stanmund:
Yes, "ongoing" uses the same prefix. O.E. 'on' is an unstressed variant of 'an', meaning "in, on, into". It would be used (in O.E.) in many instances where "in-" is used today. (cf. "inward", O.E. inneweard, from O.E. inne "in" + -weard). Note, O.E. "a(n)-,on-,in-" is not to be confused with Latin "in-". Other examples include, arise, awake, ashame, alive, asleep, abroad, afoot, anew, abreast, upon, etc.
From what is known, O.E. seemes to have a lot more suffixes than prefixes. A great deal of the suffixes survive in modern English. Unfortunately, the reverse seems to be true fro the prefixes.
As for O.E. affixes, Wiktionary will get you started in the right way: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Old_English_affixes
Also, here is the link to a great book, which has a good list of prefixes and suffixes:
“Anglish”
- March 9, 2011, 9:35am
The prefix "em-" is French, which derived from O.Fr. "en-", and is ultimately from L. "in-" (Gk. cognate is "en-"). A W.Saxon prefix that means the same thing is "on-" (cf. O.E. onliehtan "to enlighten"). The O.E. prefix "an-" is a variant of "on-", too.
BOWER is from O.E. *bur, which is from P.Gmc. *buraz. So, "onbower" or "anbower" would be equivalent to "embower".
“Anglish”
- March 8, 2011, 5:43pm
Thanks, jayles! Good recommendation!
More Germanic=> Latin/ French => English (Germanic) Words. Enjoy!:
abandon (from P.Gmc. *bannan through Frankish, which was heavily borrowed into French and Latin.)
acre (O.E. æcer, from P.Gmc. *akraz)
aboard (from à + Frankish *bord)
bacon (from P.Gmc. *bakkon through Low Frankish *bakko)
baggage (from O.N. baggi)
ballast-er (from P.Gmc. *bazaz + P.Gmc. *laistijanan. Or from North Sea Germanic and Scandinavian (cf. O.Dan. barlast, 14c.)
bank (from P.Gmc. *bangkon, a cognate with *bankiz)
bastion (from Frankish *bastjan)
bivouac (from Swiss/Alsatian biwacht, "beiwacht")
Camembert (from W.Gmc. *kampo-z, an early loan from L. 'campus' + W.Gmc. p.n. "Maimbert")
canard (from P.Gmc *kanan)
chic (from M.L.G. schikken or M.H.G. schicken)
crochet, croquet (from O.N. krokr )
equip (from P.Gmc. *skipan through O.N. *skipa)
etiquette (from Frank. *stikkan)
engage, gage (from P.Gmc. *wadi- through Frankish *wadja-, common evolution of Gmc. -w- to Fr. -g-)
flatter (from Frankish *flat)
gain (from Frankish *waidanjan, Gmc. -w- to Fr. -g-)
guide (from Frankish *witan, Gmc. -w- to Fr. -g-)
guise (from Frankish *wisa, Gmc. -w- to Fr. -g-)
haggard (from P.Gmc. *khag- through M.H.G. 'hag')
harness (from O.N. *hernest)
maraud, marauder (from Frankish *marrjan)
placard (from M.Du. placken)
“Anglish”
- March 6, 2011, 11:01pm
jayles: It would be a "Pain in the English" to attempt to convert foreign, non-English speakers because of the "Globalish" already being taught to them. I am setting my sights a lot lower. Words from mathematics should stay. Although, a lot of the Latin-Greek "science words" could be replaced.
The Old English lexis for arts, sciences, and literature fell out of favor because it fell into disuse. Very simply, the bourgeoisie wanted to be taken as a more noble and refined people--so they adopted more "Latin-French" words. The became embarrassed by Ænglish believing the snobby hype that it was VULGAR. The fix? Start proudly rediscovering and using the higher-register OE words!
"Old English was extremely resourceful in its ability to express synonyms and shades of meaning on its own, in many respects rivaling or exceeding that of Modern English (synonyms numbering in the thirties for certain concepts were not uncommon). Take for instance the various ways to express the word "astronomer" or "astrologer" in Old English: tunglere, tungolcræftiga, tungolwītega, tīdymbwlātend, tīdscēawere." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language
Recommended Reading: "Politics and the English Language" (1946) by George Orwell http://georgeorwellnovels.com/essays/politics-and-the-english-language/
More Latin-French words that are surprisingly Germanic at their roots:
* allegiance (from O.E. læt)
* Feudal (from Goth. *faihu, O.H.G. *fihu)
* Fee (from Frank. *fehu-od--same Germanic root as Feudal)
* furniture, per+form+ance ( both from W.Gmc. *frumjan
“Anglish”
- March 5, 2011, 9:35am
Most common 'content words' in ranking order from the Oxford English Corpus:
Nouns
1 time
2 person* (from L. *persona)
3 year
4 way
5 day
6 thing
7 man
8 world
9 life
10 hand
11 part* (from L. *partem)
12 child
13 eye
14 woman
15 place* (ultimately from Gk. *plateia)
16 work
17 week
18 case* (from L. capsa "receptacle"; from L. casus "state of affairs")
19 point* (ultimately from L. *pungere)
20 government* (from Gk. kybernan + L. stem -mentum)
21 company* (from L.L. companionem. Found first in 6c. Frankish Lex Salica, and probably a translation of a Germanic word (cf. Gothic gahlaiba))
22 number* (from L. *numerus)
23 group (actually a Germanic word from P.Gmc. *kruppaz)
24 problem* (from Gk. *proballein)
25 fact* (from L. *factum)
Verbs
1 be
2 have
3 do
4 say
5 get
6 make
7 go
8 know
9 take
10 see
11 come
12 think
13 look
14 want
15 give
16 use* (from Vulgar L. *usare)
17 find
18 tell
19 ask
20 work
21 seem
22 feel
23 try
24 leave
25 call
Adjectives
1 good
2 new
3 first
4 last
5 long
6 great
7 little
8 own
9 other
10 old
11 right
12 big
13 high
14 different* (from L. *differentem)
15 small
16 large* (from L. largus)
17 next
18 early
19 young
20 important* (from L. *importare)
21 few
22 public* (from Old L. *poplicus)
23 bad
24 same
25 able* (from L. *habilem, habilis)
16 out of 75 words (21%) are of non-Germanic origin. 59 out of 75 (79%) are of Germanic origin. **I am counting company as a non-Germanic word, even though the ultimate origin is in question given the Frankish reference.
“Anglish”
- March 5, 2011, 8:54am
Based on the evidence of the Oxford English Corpus, which currently contains over 2 billion words, the 100 commonest English words found in writing around the world are as follows:
1 the
2 be
3 to
4 of
5 and
6 a
7 in
8 that
9 have
10 I
11 it
12 for
13 not
14 on
15 with
16 he
17 as
18 you
19 do
20 at
21 this
22 but
23 his
24 by
25 from
26 they
27 we
28 say
29 her
30 she
31 or
32 an
33 will
34 my
35 one
36 all
37 would
38 there
39 their
40 what
41 so
42 up
43 out
44 if
45 about
46 who
47 get
48 which
49 go
50 me
51 when
52 make
53 can
54 like
55 time
56 no
57 just
58 him
59 know
60 take
61 people* (O.Fr. peupel, from L. populus, unknown origin, possibly from Etruscan)
62 into
63 year
64 your
65 good
66 some
67 could
68 them
69 see
70 other
71 than
72 then
73 now
74 look
75 only
76 come
77 its
78 over
79 think
80 also
81 back
82 after
83 use* (from Vulgar L. *usare)
84 two
85 how
86 our
87 work
88 first
89 well
90 way
91 even
92 new
93 want
94 because* (OE. "by" + L. causa; modeled on Fr. 'par cause')
95 any
96 these
97 give
98 day
99 most
100 us
3 out of 100 are non-Germanic (3%). 97 out of 100 are Germanic (97%).
“Anglish”
- March 5, 2011, 8:11am
jayles: What do you mean by "inevitably romance language speakers just choose the romance option. For the others the romance option is often less error-prone."
More "French words" of Germanic origin:
* boulevard (from M.Du. bolwerc "wall of a fortification")
* mannequin (from Du. manneken). This word already existed in the 1560's, while the French version came about in 1902.
* afraid (from L. ex + Frankish *frithu "peace," from P.Gmc. *frithuz "peace, consideration, forbearance"; O.E. friðu)
* war (from Frankish *werra)
* standard ( from Frankish *standhard)
* scavenger (from O.H.G. scouwon, O.E. sceawian)
* baron ( from Frankish baro; merged with cog. O.E. beorn)
* skirmish (from O.H.G. skirmen or Frankish *skirmjan)
* attack (from a + Frank. *stakon. see O.E. staca, from P.Gmc. *stakon)
* regard, reward (from re + Frankish *wardon, from P.Gmc. *wardo-)
* crush (from from Frankish *krostjan)
* herald (from from Frankish *hariwald, from P.Gmc. *kharjaz)
Check twice, if you think, or more importantly someone (especially in Academia) tells you, a word in English is borrowed from French.
“Anglish”
@Stanmund: Do you mean that you are looking for an Anglo-Saxon word to mean "a deserved rebuke or penalty", rather than trying to fix "comeuppance"?
The word deserve had many true English alternatives: earn, gain (from Frankish *waidanjan), etc. "Rebuke" is a recycled Germanic word with a Latin prefix: L. "re-" + "buke"(O.Fr. rebuchier)-- from W.Gmc./ Scandinavian *busk, which is from P.Gmc. *busk-). "Rebuke" literally mean "return strike".
Other native similar words/ phrases you might use: Wrath, Eye for an Eye, Reckoning, Reward, Earned Wyrd (i.e. Fate), Get His/Hers/Yours, Get what's coming to you, you shall rue the day, you'll be sorry, I'll see you on--, or you'll get-- the gallows, asf. There is lots to choose from.
The suffix "-kin" would not work. It is a diminutive (cf. Ger. -chen) or "a kin, kind, race, species, family" (cf. Angelcynn, "Angelkin).