Username
Ængelfolc
Member Since
February 28, 2011
Total number of comments
675
Total number of votes received
68
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“Anglish”
- March 4, 2011, 7:48pm
jayles: No, man! Its cool. I simply want encourage people to use English, not Global-speak, in traditionally English-speaking countries like England and the U.S. English, even as we know it, can become extinct by completely transforming into "Globelish", if care is not taken.
Academia, of course, is one of the biggest accomplices to that. For example, how many people do you think believe that "soup" is a French word? A Latin word? It's neither. It is a Germanic word. It is derived from P.Gmc *saupan, *saupaz. How about "soil"? Sounds French. It's not. "Soil" comes from Frankish *sulljan, *sauljan and OE solian, sylian. Okay, "regret". Now that's of French origin! Nope. It is a Germanic word, too (with the exception of the "re-" part, which is borrowed from Latin, but of unknown origin). "Regret" is from Frankish *grêtan, grêotan (to cry, weep, mourn, or lament), which is ultimately from P.Gmc. *greutanan (derived from PIE *ghrew- "to weep or be sad"). See my point? This knowledge is lost to average folks. This type of ignorance allows people to believe the propaganda about the English language.
Anyway, I digress. Good show, jayles! I appreciate the debate.
“Anglish”
- March 4, 2011, 5:35am
A great read for anyone interested in how the Norman Conquest affected the English language. http://geoffboxell.tripod.com/words.htm
“Anglish”
- March 4, 2011, 5:22am
Thank you for the comments, jayles: Ænglisc, as described here, may not be for you. It is not for everyone. As I said earlier, it is not for World-wide distribution. Perhaps you are at home with all of the French influence. Good for you. A lot of Norman-French words are of Germanic origin,and were reintroduced into English, as I am sure you are aware. The Welsh are trying to revive Cymraeg, why shouldn't the English try to do the same for their language? It is called, after all, England, not "Norfrenlatengwelscotland". Recall that Normans are culturally Germanic as well as by blood, but spoke Normaund (Scandinavian-Latin-French). They are a mixture of Scandinavians, Hiberno-Norse, Orcadians, Anglo-Danish, and indigenous Franks and Gauls. 1000 years ago the Normans were in Normandy expanding west and pushing out the Bretons.
What do you mean the language is not academic enough? University disapproves? Who cares about the status quo? Do you think that anyone is advocating for an immediate switch? That would be ridiculous, as well as, impractical. The influences happened over time, so the reversals could happen over time, too. "Wet-earth Melting" is an off-the-cuff attempt at creating an equivalency for "soil liquefaction". If you understand German, do you understand Bodenverflüssigung? Break this word down in to its parts, and you should be able to construct the Ænglisc version. No doubt there is a lot of developing to do. There is 945 years of damage to reverse! For you, "soil liquefaction" is more understandable because that is what you are probably used to. That is expected, and okay. The same goes for any of the other Anglo words you find difficult. You are simply not used to them being used in ways other than how you were taught to use them. That is why you have the impression that ideas are not communicated as well as the mongrel English of today. That simply is not true or accurate said in any language. Your understanding of "melting" is a great example, and neatly proves the point of Ænglisc supporters.
Modern English speakers have lost much of the original language by allowing so-called "academics" to tell them which word are acceptable, and which are not. Why do you think we do not use a case system anymore? "Academics". Why is our spelling screwed up? "Academics". Why can most modern English speakers not understand the English of Chaucer or Shakespeare? "Academics". People's inability to read, write, and understand proper English is a failure of Academia at large (or Acadème, if you prefer). Appealing to authority is never the sign of a strong argument. Google/Harvard Study of the Current Number of Words in the English Language is 1,022,000 (OED estimates about 750,000). Either way, are this many words necessary to be precise? To effectively communicate? Useful? No. Muddling to most native and 2nd language speakers.
As for your challenge, I more than surpassed your 'expectations'. I wrote more than 100 words and presented the idea of soil liquefaction as clearly and defined as if it had been written in mongrel English. I can do it all day long, with any topic. Of course, it will sound weird because there is, as of yet, no generally accepted terms in Anglo-Saxon for some modern concepts. Alas, it doesn't matter anyway. Moving on, I also successfully defined disambiguation and pneumoconiosis without any problem. Keep in mind, that had 1066 gone differently, we would have true English words for these ideas, just like the Germans. In German one can use the snooty sounding "Pneumokoniose" or the colloquial Germanic "Staublunge". Surely, English can be this way, too. As for me, my native languages are German and English (although I speak six fluently, at the moment). No Welsh, Picts, Brits, French, Spanish, Basques, or Hibernians in my tree.
Ha szeretné megváltoztatni az egész sziget Anglia a magyar beszél?k, hogy biztos lenne lehetetlen feladat! A magyar nyelv nem áll kapcsolatban a latin, kelta, germán nyelvek vagy egyébként. Azt akarod mondani, hogy angolszász nem érdemes megmenteni?
Those interested in protecting culture and history will secure Anglo-Saxon Ænglisc, and perhaps restore it to its rightful glory. Everybody else will be happy speaking Global-English (which should not be called English) just to get along.
Thanks again for the feedback.
“Anglish”
- March 3, 2011, 7:19pm
@jayles: "... the whole premise of anglish is that saxon words are better, Why?
Romance words do not denote snobbery or social status in France, or Spain or Romania.
Only in England."
Firstly, let me say, it is not only in England that romance words seem to tell breeding or standing. It is in the U.S., too. Secondly, Ænglisc (Germanic) words are not better, they rightly belong above all other words. Jm wrote a truth: "Anglish words are truer, they say what they mean." Think about French, Greek, Latin, and any other tongue that has made it into English. Why are they used? Why are these tongues thought of as greater than Ænglisc? Why are folks seen as 'smarter' when they speak them? Why forget our roots where ever they may be from? Why should Ænglisc end up like Norn, Gothic, or Yola?A borrowing here or there is not an evil thing, it will happen when two unalike folks get together. It is right and true for Ænglisc folks everywhere (England, the U.S., a.s.f.) to take care of their birthright. Folks need to know where they come from. The Ænglisc folks and their tongue are worthy of awe, just like any other.
“Anglish”
- March 3, 2011, 6:37pm
jayles: Thanks for your input. You have given but one of today's meanings for 'melting'. It is a useful word!
melt (mlt)
v. melt·ed, melt·ing, melts
v.intr.
1. To be changed from a solid to a liquid state especially by the application of heat.
2. To dissolve: Sugar melts in water.
3. To disappear or vanish gradually as if by dissolving: The crowd melted away after the rally.
4. To pass or merge imperceptibly into something else: Sea melted into sky along the horizon.
5. To become softened in feeling: Our hearts melted at the child's tears.
6. Obsolete To be overcome or crushed, as by grief, dismay, or fear.
v.tr.
1. To change (a solid) to a liquid state especially by the application of heat.
2. To dissolve: The tide melted our sand castle away.
3. To cause to disappear gradually; disperse.
4. To cause (units) to blend: "Here individuals of all races are melted into a new race of men" (Michel Guillaume Jean de Crèvecoeur).
5. To soften (someone's feelings); make gentle or tender.
n.
1. A melted solid; a fused mass.
2. The state of being melted.
3.
a. The act or operation of melting.
b. The quantity melted at a single operation or in one period.
4. A usually open sandwich topped with melted cheese: a tuna melt.
[Middle English melten, from Old English meltan; see mel-1 in Indo-European roots.]
melta·bili·ty n.
melta·ble adj.
melter n.
melting·ly adv.
melty adj.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
So, you see, it spot-on for what I wrote about. The same is true for 'sway':
sway (sw)
v. swayed, sway·ing, sways
v.intr.
1. To swing back and forth or to and fro. See Synonyms at swing.
2. To incline or bend to one side; veer: She swayed and put out a hand to steady herself.
3.
a. To incline toward change, as in opinion or feeling.
b. To fluctuate, as in outlook.
v.tr.
1. To cause to swing back and forth or to and fro.
2. To cause to incline or bend to one side.
3. Nautical To hoist (a mast or yard) into position.
4.
a. To divert; deflect.
b. To exert influence on or control over: His speech swayed the voters.
5. Archaic
a. To rule or govern.
b. To wield, as a weapon or scepter.
n.
1. The act of moving from side to side with a swinging motion.
2. Power; influence.
3. Dominion or control.
[Middle English sweien, probably of Scandinavian origin.]
swayer n.
swaying·ly adv.
One could say 'clout', 'might', 'reach', 'win over', 'work on', 'stir' (emotion), 'upper hand', and so on, to mean 'sway'. 'Sway' means the same thing as 'influence', whether the thought be about things alive or dead.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
“Anglish”
- March 3, 2011, 8:13am
Thanks, jayles! What did I get an A- for? Dust-Lungs or Wet-earth Melting? My use of Ænglisc? Both bits were dead-on, no? You are right, making new words everyone can use and understand could be woeful! Folks would have to learn new words like "mote", and learn words like "lone" (and its many uses) again. But, it CAN be done.
Wordtrending (disambiguation): 1) a sorting out of the way in which a writer uses a word, that has many meanings or spellings, for his own ends. 2) to make a lone, well-shaped meaning for a word which has many uses. 3) to use the meaning of a word that does not hinder understanding.
Token1: I do not get your meaning? Could you choose another wordtrend to make me understand better?
Would we need to (disambiguate) any thought using mostly Ænglisc anyway? I think not.
“Anglish”
- March 2, 2011, 10:42pm
"Dustbreathing Sickness"(pneumoconiosis) or "Dust-Lungs": any of the many lifelong lasting lung sicknesses brought on by the breathing-in of all kinds of dust motes.
In German it is called "Staublunge" (dust lungs). Why can't we use the same words? It doesn't have to be so muddled. Anyone think about "Black Lung"?? It is a "Dustbreathing Sickness or a pneumoconiosis illness. I can write about this in 100 words, too.
“Anglish”
- March 2, 2011, 10:12pm
"Wet-earth Melting"(aka soil liquefaction): The way in which earth that is too wet starts to behave like water. Wet-earth Melting is a wondrous happening in which the strength and stiffness of dirt is made weaker by earthquakes, shaking, or quick loading. Wet-earth Melting and like happenings have been guilty of bringing about great loss in well-known earthquakes around the world. Wet-Earth Melting happens in spots of ground that are overly wet, that is, ground in which the room between lone motes is thoroughly filled with water. This water brings weight to bear upon the dirt motes which then sways how tightly the motes themselves are squeezed together. Earthquake shaking often triggers this waxing water-weight, but building work such as blasting can also bring about a rise in water-weight. Molten Wet-earth also bears greater weight on holding walls, which can bring them to tilting or sliding. Begotten from: http://www.ce.washington.edu/~liquefaction/html/what/what1.html
“Anglish”
- March 1, 2011, 9:19pm
jayles: Good thoughts all! You are right. World-wide use, however, should not be the goal. Also you are right about 'choose' and 'choice'...there is a lot of that in English. French does have Frankish in the background somewhere, so some word follow a Germanic--> French --> then back to Germanic trend. It will never again be all Germanic, but English can be mostly made up of mostly Germanic speech again. We should choose English words for most of our speaking. Almost all tongues (even French, despite the Toubon law) are having outside words come in to them. Folks have to want to, and choose to, speak a cleaner English at home. A shift will take a lot of time. A small ripple will wallow over the whole of the sea. Everything starts small. Long live Germanic English.
“Anglish”
jayles: I do not propose to remove all foreign words. Words like "street" (L. stratta) were introduced so long ago that they are considered, by most, as belonging to English-proper. I will argue that Norman-French is part of the legislative culture of England, but almost certainly not of its people. Norman burial traditions, for example, are considered as part of the Anglo-Scandinavian tradition. What's more, the Normaund (Norman-French) language influenced legal language, but not much else. I could live without 'bailiff'-- we have 'sheriff' (O.E. scirgerefa) and 'reeve' (O.E. gerefa) among other options. If England decided to return to its pre-1066 nomenclature, that would effective solve it. Academia should teach the borrowed word and the English word side-by-side, and allow the student to choose the proper word for, what he/she feels, is the proper context. The average person, to be interested, would have to not be afraid to have pride in his/her cultural roots.
Thanks for the well-wishes, but luck is for the ill-prepared! Cheers!