@jayles: Your German is very good! You are also right about the Anglo-Saxon (which includes America) vs. the Teutonic ways of doing things. LOL! It is so true, and so funny at the same time. Did you live in Germany before?

Von meiner Sichtweise muessen die Einwanderer sich zur Kultur der Wahlheimat anpassen. Multikulti ist gescheitert. Einzelne Kultur, einzelne Richtung; viele Kulturen, viele Richtungen (im Wettstreit) >> Verfall der Hauptkultur des Landes.

@jayles: Das ist eine ganz andere Sache. Ich denke, dass fast jeder auf diese Art und Weise 'engstirnig' ist, und richtig so. Das ist fuer Auslaender nur richtig, die Sprache und Braeuche des Gastlandes anzunehmen. (Besonders, wenn sie dauerhaften Residentstatus oder Staatsbürgerschaft erwerben wollen) ..m.M.n...

@jayles: "Genau; es war als Witz gemeint." Sorry, verstand den Witz sofort nicht. Obwohl haben Sie recht. Ich verhandle einen grossen Betrag des Auslandsgeschaefts, und verstehe ganz genau. Trotzdem lauert Engstirnigkeit immer irgendwo im Hintergrund.

Here are some old science words that were coined by Germanic speakers. They all spoke Germanic tongues, yet they chose to take from Latin and Greek to make these new words.

neuron, chromosome >> Heinrich Wilhelm Gottfried von Waldeyer-Hartz (German)

genetics >> William Bateson (English)

gene >> Wilhelm Johannsen (Danish)

biceps brachii >> Bernhard Weiss (German)

iris >> Jacob Winslow (Danish)

dinosaur >> Sir Richard Owen (English)

cell >> Robert Hooke (English)

histology >> August Meyer (German)

Unbelievable, right? Sadly, French/Latin/Greek were/are the tongues of woruldwīsdōm (science).

@jayles:

Wasn't it Luis II of Hungary? I thought "know thy enemy" was from Sun Tzu (The Art of War)?

@ jayles: Als "Teutone", bin ich genau derselben Meinung. Wenn auch die Loesungsansaetzen der Angelsachsen und der Teutonen ganz anders sind, gibt es noch einen guten Weg und einen schlechten Weg. Leider ist dies, wo die Meinungsverschiedenheit liegt.

Your words are wise and ring true, jayles. Good show, and thank you!

@ferthfrith:

“Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something.” -Plato

My words, just as your words, speak for themselves. Your reply is exactly what I expected. It makes what I have written ring even more true. Thank you!

All we have are the words on this blog by which to judge, nothing else. So, what one writes is all that can be known. That's all anyone here can do. Trying to go beyond that is not a right or becoming way to be.

I hope now we all can get back to talking about English on this blog in a fruitful, worthwhile way.

Cheers to all!

@ferthfrith:

Profanity and hateful speech are signs of a weak, feeble mind trying to forcefully express itself. Clearly, this means you. There is no need to be rude on this blog.

You are frustrated since you can't handle the well-grounded rebuttals to your positions. It seems, like I said, you don't acknowledge the truth of what anyone writes, even when it can be backed up by many (old and new) sources, like dictionaries. Opening the ears opens the mind.

Academics like Latin/Greek roots to name scientific things. What you have put forth would fall on to deaf ears (deedway, loosenouts, asf). I never said that the academics would take on any new words that would put forth, only that they do use existing English words.

"Sound coinage"? That means to me that the word made follows English rules, is made from English bits, and sounds "English". It has nothing to do with it being wanton. A well made word or word-string can also be wanton.

"...grasping one of english's hallmarks: that of using many words to express many shades of meaning..." This is a latter-day (over the last 400 years or so) thing, that many English academics have argued actually has weakened English and lessened it's richness. I guess it depends on where one stands. This supposed "hallmark" is not lost on me, but after much study, I do not think so highly of this idea and question it.

"...theres no use going on quibbling about this..." Yes! Let's move on. You are not open to anything but your own thoughts. I come hear to talk about making English better; to openly (with an open mind) talk about ideas with others, not to attack them. Bad form, ferthfrith.

"im not sure what kind of english you speak but it's not the english that's spoken where im from, nor the english that's spoken on tv, nor the english that's read in books asf. we clearly have different understandings of the english language." I speak English, like you or anyone else. The proof is in my writings. We do understand English differently, and even native speakers understand English differently, too. Education, zum Beispiel, is a big factor. You are making a value-judgement about me that is unfounded and ignorant.

INDUSTRY: any general business activity; commercial enterprise; organized economic activity concerned with manufacture

BUSINESS: a person, partnership, or corporation engaged in commerce, manufacturing, or a service; profit-seeking enterprise or concern; an industrial, commercial, or professional operation; commercial activity; dealings; (adj.) of, noting, or pertaining to business, its organization, or its procedures; a trade or profession.

TRADE: of or pertaining to trade or commerce; the people and practices of an industry, craft, or business; amount of custom or commercial dealings; business; a specified market or business: the tailoring trade; an occupation in commerce, as opposed to a profession; to buy and sell (commercial merchandise); to deal or do business (with); Business or commerce; economic activity.

CRAFT: an art, trade, or occupation requiring special skill; the members of such a trade, regarded collectively

SOURCES:
Collins English Dictionary - Complete & Unabridged 10th Edition
2009 © William Collins Sons & Co. Ltd. 1979, 1986 © HarperCollins
Publishers 1998, 2000, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009

The American Heritage® New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition
Copyright © 2005 by Houghton Mifflin Company.

Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2011

So, it would seem business can mean 'industry', 'trade' maybe in a less formal setting. Certainly, 'trade' and 'craft' can shift back and forth, and can also mean 'business'. I am not sure where I "don't get it". Indeed, there are special uses for these words, but if another of the many meaning were to be highlighted... I didn't write the wordbooks, I only go by them.

Ferfrith, your ideas would seem to fit in well over at the "Anglish Moot". I am sure they'd love your input, since you seem to be of similar mind and purpose.

Again, no hard feelings! Mach's gut...

@jayles, @ferthfrith:

I am with you guys! We have talked about academia and the church being roots of the downfall or lessening of the English tongue. English is much more akin to Danish, Frisian, Dutch, and German at it's heart. Let's make German a must to learn for all learners (since it is the second most spoken tongue in the EU) and maybe Mandarin.

To be forthright, German (really Oberfränkisch ;-p) is my first tongue, so I tend to lean a little more toward anything German. But, I am for any of the Germanic tongues, since I am a striving Germanist.

Funny thing about a lot of these "scientific words": most of them seem to be coined by German scientists! ;-( Take "ecology"

@ferthfrith:

You do not understand, nor seem to want to. Listening begets understand begets wisdom.

* "You mock my coining of new words and then switch over..." NO, you misunderstand again. Read...think...read again...think...understand. I ask again, read my other posts on this blog. I mock wanton word-making and wanton borrowing. They are the same evil, just on froward side of the same coin. I cannot be any more forth coming and straight forward: over-borrowing >> bad; making words for the sake of a one-to-one swap >> bad; loanwords taken when it is from mixing of folks and folkways >> good; making new English words when one is needed for a thought or thing, if one isn't already in the wordbook >> good.

* "500 000 words at the time of beowulf." No, I wrote ,"less than 500,000 words". The point being that great written works were done without so many words.

* "you might as well drop all that your doing cause academics will be against it.
aftermath", "end", "fallout", "outgrowth", "aftershock."'" Uh, you must be joking! Right?! These words are already used by academics and scientist all the time. They are real words that are in all English wordbooks, except maybe an "Anglish" one. They are already accepted. English speakers have been trained to take "consequence" as less neutral. Your "byspells" are one-sided and only prove the weakness in your position.

* "there you go again with the word industry, thinking we can drop it..." We can, and often do. Business, trade, and craft are used interchangeably with "industry all the time. So, industry is rather "superfluous", like most borrowed words. For all of your "byspells", I ask that you look at the meanings written in the English wordbooks. Just because one "feels" or "takes" a meaning in a certain way, doesn't mean it is right. The wordbook is the guide one should use when trying to show the truth of his findings.

You are right about O.E. weorþsciepe, worðscip, wurðscip, weorðscipe (c.1300 AD). I did not even think about it being the English word "worship". Too hard to change that meaning around.

I am all for bringing back "lore" (German lehr) or frōd and broadening their use.